Emily Pennington is an REI gear tester and outdoor expert who knows what makes equipment worth the investment. In this holiday gift guide episode, she shares her top picks for the best outdoor gear gifts—whether it’s backpacking essentials, ski gear for hitting the slopes, or running gear for everyday adventures. Emily breaks down what matters most when choosing quality gear that lasts, so you can give gifts that the adventurers in your life will love.
Emily Pennington is an REI gear tester and outdoor expert who knows what makes equipment worth the investment. In this holiday gift guide episode, she shares her top picks for the best outdoor gear gifts—whether it’s backpacking essentials, ski gear for hitting the slopes, or running gear for everyday adventures. Emily breaks down what matters most when choosing quality gear that lasts, so you can give gifts that the adventurers in your life will love.
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Shelby Stanger:
The holidays are coming, and in my humble opinion, the best gift you can give is adventure. Today, we're talking about the gear that makes the best gifts for ourselves, for family and partners, or even for that one friend who wants to try backpacking or cross-country skiing. If you're planning on buying outdoor gear for your loved ones, you want to get it right. As any adventurer knows, quality gear can make a big difference, whether you're camping in the wild, hitting the slopes, or going for a run in your neighborhood. Today, we're talking with REI expert advice gear tester, Emily Pennington, about which outdoor equipment is actually worth your investment. I'm Shelby Stanger, and this is Wild Ideas Worth Living, an REI Co-op Studios Production presented by Capital One and the REI Co-op MasterCard.
You might remember Emily Pennington from a previous Wild Ideas episode where she talked about the year she spent traveling to every single U.S. National Park. In her work as a gear tester, Emily has evaluated and reviewed a lot of equipment for Outdoor Gear Lab, CNN Underscored, and currently REI. Emily is all about finding that sweet spot between gear that's lightweight, durable, and practical, so whether you're shopping for someone else or for yourself, Emily has advice to help you dodge the duds and find the best gear for your adventures.
Emily Pennington, welcome back to Wild Ideas Worth Living. It's been a while. When we last spoke, you'd just written your book, Feral, which is fabulous, and you moved to Boulder. What's been up since then? Just catch us up for people who don't know who you are. What was Feral about? Why'd you move to Boulder? What's going on?
Emily Pennington:
Yeah, I'm stoked to be here. I am probably, yeah, most known for my work with the national parks. I work as a journalist and a writer specializing in the national parks. I've been to every U.S. National Park, and that's what my book Feral is about. Last time we spoke, I was in Los Angeles and I was not stoked on where I lived, and so I was like, You know what? I'm going to pack up my van and move across the country." I went for the literally greener pastures of Boulder, Colorado. I can see the flat irons out my window right now, and I'm so happy here. I feel like as far as Wild Ideas go, Shelby, I feel like this will be right up your alley, but I started dating someone who's an amazing guitarist and I was like, "You know what? I'm in my late 30s. I'm just going to start a rock band and learn guitar."
Shelby Stanger:
Well done.
Emily Pennington:
I'm in this band now. I mean, I still write, but when I'm not writing and hunched over my laptop, I'm in this folk rock band called Trouble's Braids, which is super exciting. We're just running around having fun on the side.
Shelby Stanger:
I love that. I love that you had this wild idea to just move across the country in your van, and then you actually moved to a great place to discuss what we're talking about today, which is gear. Boulder is probably one of the best places to test outdoor gear because you have everything right in your backyard there.
Emily Pennington:
Yeah, absolutely, and honestly, that's another consideration that I had when I was moving here because I wanted the 300-plus days of sunshine that you get in Los Angeles, but I also wanted to be able to just walk out my door to a trail or bike ride or drive 40 minutes and go skiing somewhere in the Rocky Mountains that is amazing and has incredible views like Eldora. It has been I had a suspicion that it would be a boon to my writing career because so many of my editors and friends and colleagues are here or in Denver, and it's an awesome place to test gear because there's a creek running right through downtown, so water shoes, hiking, the flat irons are right here. There's rock climbing. It's amazing.
Shelby Stanger:
How fun. Since this episode's about gear, this is a wild idea of a podcast, so if you're listening, we've never done a podcast like this, but I'm a gear nerd, so I'm just curious how you got into gear testing.
Emily Pennington:
Yeah, I jumped onto the gear team at REI way back in 2019, and I was testing things like hiking socks or coordinating literally dozens of testers for day backpacks. Yeah, I've been doing it for a long time, and yeah, it's very multilayered, which I love.
Shelby Stanger:
I'm curious, when you test gear now that you write about, there's so much to take into consideration. The people who make these, they're like some of them, I know like the guy at Outdoor Research is like an astrophysicist or an engineer. He started his company because he was at a trip where someone got frostbite and he really wanted to create gear that worked.
Emily Pennington:
Yeah, I think that one of the cool things about the brand side of gear companies is that you have these people who maybe could have made twice what they're making at a gear company being a literal textile engineer or a mechanical engineer, depending on what kind of gear they're making, but instead there are these passionate outdoor adventurers who really do care about the experience that other people have in the wilderness.
To your point, I have done a fair amount of testing name brand gear against something on Amazon with like 3,000 reviews and pretty much a hundred percent of the time in addition to the Amazon gear not having a reliable warranty, a lot of gear at REI for example, it's literally designed to last for at least five, 10 years. A lot of it comes with a built-in guarantee, but in addition to that, they are truly using these higher tech fabrics that if you take care of them, they end up being things that you will form almost like an emotional connection with because it's part of your outdoor story and your outdoor experience for years.
Shelby Stanger:
I want to start with camping. What's your must-haves when it comes to gear?
Emily Pennington:
You know, I feel like you got to have a good shelter. I'm a sucker for either the really ultralight Big Agnes tents like the Copper Spur. I'm obsessed with that tent. When I first started backpacking, I wanted to save a little more money, though, and I got the ultralight REI, I think it was like a quarter dome or half dome tent. Those are great. You need a really good shelter.
Shelby Stanger:
You want to actually use your rainfly, which is something I found out the hard way one night.
Emily Pennington:
Yeah, you don't. I mean, it sounds cute to have your rainfly off so that you see the stars, but one time I was camping pretty close to the ocean in-
Shelby Stanger:
Me too.
Emily Pennington:
... Big Sur. Yeah.
Shelby Stanger:
Exactly what happened.
Emily Pennington:
I had no idea the morning dew near the ocean is extreme, and so I woke up and I was like, "Why is my sleeping bag wet? It didn't rain." Yeah, I would recommend actually using your rainfly and getting a good ground tarp. If you're going to get an expensive ultralight tent, having the ground tarp that actually goes with the footprint is super key because then you can protect that baby fabric floor that's super thin.
Shelby Stanger:
Okay, so these are two things I didn't know, and I also camped by the beach, I didn't have a ground tarp, and I took the rain fly off because I was camping near the water and it was like 70 degrees and sunny when I went to bed. I woke up soaking wet and was like, "What happened?"
Emily Pennington:
I also feel like I really value my sleep, and I will always pack a sleeping bag that is at least 10 degrees warmer than the low temperature because there's nothing worse than being up at 3:00 in the morning shivering because it's 28 degrees and you're in a 25-degree sleeping bag and you have all your layers on inside your sleeping bag. You're just trying to make it through the night. It sucks so much. I think I mentioned earlier, I was actually just testing this new bag called the Exped Terra. I think it's only like 250 bucks, and it comes in like five different sizes, so like a big, tall dude could get a really good sleeping bag, which I think that's such a cool accessibility story in terms of like you don't have to spend thousands of dollars to get out and go backpacking, and I love that they're doing that.
Shelby Stanger:
Well, I really like... I don't love sleeping in mummy sleeping bags. I feel claustrophobic. I get it, if you're backpacking, you got to have one, but I'm mostly car camp. I'm soft. I'm older now. I love those sleeping bags that just fold up like a quilt, and I'm really into blankets, so Rumpl makes a really good blanket. If you're cold and you don't have a warm sleeping bag, you just get one of those packable Rumpl blankets. I think REI has their own blanket. They're pretty awesome and useful.
Emily Pennington:
Yeah, and for car camping you can literally throw a Rumpl blanket over your sleeping bag-
Shelby Stanger:
Exactly.
Emily Pennington:
... for additional warmth. It's so cozy. You can make a little nest.
Shelby Stanger:
This is the biggest question I get all the time, hiking boots or trail runners?
Emily Pennington:
For me, it depends. If I'm carrying weight, like if I'm backpacking, especially if it's a longer trip and not just an overnight, I'm a big fan of hiking boots that have a lot of stability and support because I'm getting older, my feet are kind of messed up. I want to keep doing the sports that I love, so I think I just got something called the Hoka Kaha 2, and it's got this flared kind of heel that I could really feel it when I was backpacking. I'm the kind of person who rolls my ankles a lot, even if I'm just walking on a flat trail, and so I noticed that even with a 35 or 40-pound backpack on, I was like my heels were very firmly planted on the ground. I love that for if you're doing a more rugged trail with a lot of rocks or roots that you're stepping over. I think Salomon also makes some really burly hiking boots that are very well-supported, very stabilizing for your feet if you're going to be hiking with weight on.
Shelby Stanger:
Are you a runner?
Emily Pennington:
I used to be, but I was also a dancer for so much of my life that I messed up my feet quite young. I'm a big fan of like La Sportiva and Hoka trail runners, and Altras as well. If you have like... I have kind of between a medium and a wide foot. Altras are great if you like a wide trail runner, and all three of those, they make such a great variety. I do the super cushy like cloud-like trail runners now that I'm older. I know a lot of people love the zero drop stuff, but I generally flip the shoe over and I look for something with really aggressive lugs because even half the trails I go on are mellow, for me, I'm really going to want that stability and that extra grip. If it rains, if it's muddy, I like having something with a really grippy bottom.
Shelby Stanger:
I'm Altra all day, or my partner, he likes Vivobarefoot, and we're big fans of foot health and I find that the wide toe box has been really a game changer for me and being able to run better. Zero drop works for me. It doesn't work for everybody, and for running shoes like Brooks, Altra, but if I go hiking, I've never been on like a four-day or over backpacking trip. The most I've done is like a night, so I always just wear Altra running shoes, but I've never carried a super heavyweight backpack.
Emily Pennington:
That wide toe box is good for descending, too, if you are backpacking, I would also, yeah, I'd add that I love throwing Superfeet into whatever shoes I have, whether it's a hiking boot or a trailer runner. They have running-specific ones. They have ski boot-specific ones that just blew my mind last winter.
Shelby Stanger:
Superfeet, just for those who don't know, are insoles.
Emily Pennington:
Yes, they're like these insoles. I think some of them are customizable now as well to your foot shape, but they basically, they'll take an amazing hiking shoe and make it out of this world. They'll just make it so much more comfortable. You get more arch support. It just adds more for someone like me who has feet that have just been through a lot for many decades. Yeah, I really believe in foot health and I feel like anything that you have that's touching the ground and getting a lot of that strike force is worth spending money on.
Shelby Stanger:
What about socks?
Emily Pennington:
Oh my gosh. I'm also a sock nerd. I wrote a big, it was many years ago, but for REI, I wrote a big like hiking sock guide, gosh, for hiking and backpacking. The Darn Tough socks are-
Shelby Stanger:
Yeah, people love those.
Emily Pennington:
... just so good. They finally started making cute patterns, so I have these Darn Tough critter socks that have raccoons on them that I'm obsessed with, and I wear them just out like walking my dog in the morning. They make me happy that they have little raccoon socks.
Shelby Stanger:
Since you live in the mountains, it's about to be snowboard/ski season. Do you ski or do you snowboard?
Emily Pennington:
I ski.
Shelby Stanger:
Awesome. I snowboard, so this is going to be perfect, so any must-have gears for our winter adventures?
Emily Pennington:
Yeah, I just got my first powder skis now that I'm properly in Colorado and I'm trying to get more expert at skiing. I got these Rossignol Something Soul, Raleigh Soul Bird, something like that. They're these amazing Rossignol skis, and they're women-specific and I'm obsessed with them, and I kind of cant' wait for it to snow. I love the fall colors here in Boulder, but I'm also excited to get on these skis again. I also just got my first nice ski boots. I think they're the Salomon S Pro Something, and I got my liners heat-molded. I got the Superfeet snow-specific. They probably snowboarding ones, too. I have the Superfeet for your ski boots, so my arches are supported and I love it. I love it. I'm like, "My goal is to be able to ski all day very comfortably and not have weird foot aches.
Shelby Stanger:
That's a huge goal.
Emily Pennington:
What about you for snowboarding? I feel like the gears can be so different.
Shelby Stanger:
It's so tricky. I mean, I got all my gear from Burton two or three years ago, and now it's probably ancient. I think that's the hard thing is I'm one of those people who right now I'm going to go rent my gear from REI or from a local mountain shop wherever I go because I only ski a couple times a year or snowboard. For me, the biggest piece of gear for me that's been a game changer is a neck gaiter, and I know-
Emily Pennington:
No way.
Shelby Stanger:
... that sounds weird, but I used to never wear one in a helmet. I'm from the days where you just wore a beanie on the mountain, and a helmet can make such a big difference. One, it's dangerous out there, it's good to protect your head, but two, they're really warm. Also good googles. I have pterygiums in my eyes. I know this gets gross, but I have surfer's eye from starting at the sun teaching surfing, so I really need good goggles and good glasses. There's so many pairs of goggles out there and glasses. I don't know. Do you have a favorite pair?
Emily Pennington:
I just got... Okay, so I love the Zeal goggles for skiing that have like the interchangeable lenses. Also, this is another reason I'm excited for it to be ski season. I got these, I learned that there's this thing called OTG goggles, which is over-the-glasses goggles. I'm not a contact lens wearer because my prescription's pretty good. I can see pretty well without these on, but like most people, my prescription's getting a little higher as I get older, and so if I wear, these are like giant glasses I'm wearing right now, but if I wear my more slim compact ones, I got these Smith OTG goggles. You wear them over your glasses and they're designed so that they don't fog up. They have like a special nose bridge, so for glasses wearers, I'm excited because I think I'll be able to do more advanced ski stuff because I'll be able to see better.
Shelby Stanger:
I think that would help me, too. I actually wear glasses for distance, so that's really helpful and really good to know. I'm curious, is there any other underrated winter accessories that we should think about? I've heard about heated boots. I'm really curious to try them. They kind of freaked me out, but like heated socks-
Emily Pennington:
I had some.
Shelby Stanger:
... heated boots-
Emily Pennington:
Yeah-
Shelby Stanger:
... it sounds amazing.
Emily Pennington:
... I had the Rossignol ones. They were actually... I would say heated boots are cooler than heated socks in my limited testing. I'm also like very ADHD, though, so I forget to charge things or I forget to turn them on unless I'm freezing. I'll forget to click the button and turn it on when I get on the lift, so I'm wearing these heated boots and they're doing nothing. That's me. That's a me issue, though. I will say, yeah, they're pretty cool. If you are someone whose toes are always cold when you're doing snow sports, it might be worth a look. In terms of just like little accessories, especially as we're thinking about a gifting a little bit, I really love a nerdy balaclava, like-
Shelby Stanger:
That's what I mean.
Emily Pennington:
... it might-
Shelby Stanger:
Yeah, like one of those-
Emily Pennington:
... yeah.
Shelby Stanger:
... things.
Emily Pennington:
It might not look cool. Actually, Skida just started making all these awesome prints and patterns and there's cool floral ones. I have a balaclava that matches a dog bandana from them, so my dog and I can match if we go out in the snow, which is so cute.
Shelby Stanger:
You must look really cool matching your dog.
Emily Pennington:
I think I look awesome matching my dog.
Shelby Stanger:
I know we didn't prep you for this before, but I really like to travel light-
Emily Pennington:
Oh, same.
Shelby Stanger:
... and I think it's hard today. There's certain gear that is really good to travel with that makes things easy traveling light, and there's other stuff that is challenging. I guess there's one piece of gear right now I have in front of me and that's this Platypus water bottle. It's like just a piece of plastic filled with water and it's amazing. You can just crumble it up, fold it in your backpack. I take this hiking with me all the time and I've reused this since 2016, so it's old, but it's lasted and it holds over two liters of water, maybe two and a half. I don't know. Anyway, are there certain things that you really like when it comes to like travel gear?
Emily Pennington:
Absolutely. One of my favorite things that I've been using for almost 10 years now that's still going strong, it looks brand new basically, and I use it all the time, is the Patagonia Black Hole.
Shelby Stanger:
Oh yeah. I have that.
Emily Pennington:
The Hole.
Shelby Stanger:
... that Black Hole duffle. Yeah, I that that-
Emily Pennington:
The Black Hole-
Shelby Stanger:
... every trip.
Emily Pennington:
... duffle is key, yeah, especially I would say the 45 liter is the one that I'm obsessed with. I tried the smaller one. It was a little too small for me. The 45-liter, it turns into a backpack. It does have a compartment on the outside that is pretty waterproof, I believe, so you can either put shoes-
Shelby Stanger:
You could put your computer in it.
Emily Pennington:
... mm-hmm-
Shelby Stanger:
Yeah.
Emily Pennington:
... or your computer. Yeah, exactly. You can figure out what you want, but it's separate from your clothes, so something like dirty shoes or a swimsuit could go in there theoretically, but there's so many pockets. It's so customizable. It's relatively weatherproof. No one's ever going to bat an eye. It's a soft bag, so I can squish it in between other bags because it's a soft-sided duffel, and it holds so much stuff. I literally went to Svalbard. Svalbard is this amazing Arctic tiny little archipelago with a small city, and I was there in late September, so it had just snowed, and I was there for over a week. I just had this little carry-on duffel bag with massive like dinner outfits, big jackets, hiking boots. I had all of it, and it magically with my laptop fit into this bag, so that's my favorite.
Shelby Stanger:
A soft bag is really key for travel. Is there anything else that especially for traveling light like clothes-wise? That's something that's hard to find for me. How do you look cute, but travel light?
Emily Pennington:
Yeah, I'm a huge fan right now of like in terms of base layers I love the Artilect base layers and I also love pretty much everything that PAKA is doing. It's like this alpaca-
Shelby Stanger:
Can you tell me the first-
Emily Pennington:
... wool [inaudible 00:20:20].
Shelby Stanger:
... brand you said?
Emily Pennington:
Yeah, Artilect, it's this material that's called Nuyarn, which is a thinner version of Merino wool, and they make these really layerable earth tone or black base layers that I love because they're just so simple and modern that they could go under or over anything and not look like you just got off a hike. Aria has a really amazing just store brand raincoat that if you get a raincoat that's in black, you can layer it over almost anything and you could go to dinner without looking like a total dirt bag hiker. I'm a big fan of bringing a very simple like black or navy rain jacket with me when I travel.
Shelby Stanger:
You brought up another area of expertise that I wanted to talk about, material. A lot of the stuff I wear is synthetic and plastic-y and I don't love that. I really do love the more natural materials like wool, and I'm curious how I can find more of it. Who's doing a good job with it?
Emily Pennington:
Yeah, so yeah, it's so interesting the trade-off between synthetic and wool. I've seen personally by having certain base layers for about 10 years now that synthetic is definitely more durable than wool. It's not going to break down as quickly. It might be more water repellent. Obviously, rain jackets and pants are going to be synthetic because I don't think you can have a fully waterproof wool rain pant, but that being said, wool is naturally antimicrobial, which means that it's not going to get funky and stink up as quickly if you're backpacking for a week long trip in the summer. I really am a fan of Smartwool's classic thermal crew or whatever they're called. They come in a million different patterns and they rotate them every year, so those are really fun.
Nuyarn is the fabric I was talking about earlier. It is technically a type of wool. I believe it's spun differently so that it can be really, really thin, but still be as durable as a thicker base layer. Then, like I mentioned very briefly earlier, I'm really in love with everything that this company PAKA is doing. I just got this awesome pullover sweater that I lived in. I was just at this cabin for three days in the kind of higher elevation Rocky Mountains. It doesn't rain that much in Colorado, but it rained all weekend, and I was like living in this alpaca sweater riding horses and going mountain biking. I was toasty and so warm. Even thought it was wet, it repels moisture a little bit, and also wool and alpaca fibers naturally insulate even when they get wet, which is really important as a safety feature in case you get stuck out in the rain and you're not expecting it.
Shelby Stanger:
What about like gifts under $50?
Emily Pennington:
This is a great question. I feel like I am a big advocate for more accessible, affordable outdoor gear, so I feel like I'm often trying to look for things that are under $50. Getting someone a good backpacking pillow, those are usually right around 50 bucks, and often something that people don't have. It's like a nice little luxury item that only weights a couple ounces. I don't think anyone can have too many hats. I love the Sunday Afternoons hats. They make really cool nerdy... it covers your neck like trail running and hiking hats, but I like the trucker caps because I like to look cool like you, Shelby.
Shelby Stanger:
I actually got the new REI printed bucket hats. They so cute, and I have another one that's like a wide brim hat that folds up really nice that I take when I volunteer at the farm, at the Buddhist monastery, and it's amazing and it's cute.
Emily Pennington:
That's awesome. Yeah, I love them because I wear a hat every single day of my life walking my dog in the morning because I don't want to put on sunscreen and feel greasy yet. I think I have these Wallaroo sun hats that I'll sometimes wear when I want to look a little more hippie and not do a trucker cap.
Shelby Stanger:
Hats, food, what about headlamps?
Emily Pennington:
Yeah, you know, I believe it's BioLite that just came out with a new headlamp that is rechargeable, so you don't have to worry about not having enough AAA batteries with you on your car camping trip or whatever. Yeah, super critical piece of gear for like if you have to go pee in the middle of the night and you don't want to stumble around in the woods, or maybe you get to your campsite kind of late and you're cooking. Having a really good 3 or 400 lumen at least headlamp is great. Those are often right around $50 as well. I believe also a number of different backpacking food companies, like if you want to gift something to someone you don't know very well or maybe someone who has everything already, a backpacker or car camper will probably never have enough fun food items. I think like three-packs where maybe it's like a breakfast, lunch, and dinner, so they're good to go for a little weekend warrior expedition.
Shelby Stanger:
Fun. I like those LUMI solar-powered lights. They are really cool and they're just... Kids like them. Also, I like space saver cubes, packable cubes from Eagle Creek. Other brands make them, but it's fun to be a nerd and organize your gear.
Emily Pennington:
You reminded me of one more thing that I do love that I think is $40, the REI Flash 18-
Shelby Stanger:
Oh, the-
Emily Pennington:
... daypack.
Shelby Stanger:
... daypack is the best daypack ever.
Emily Pennington:
Dude-
Shelby Stanger:
I agree.
Emily Pennington:
... it has a hip belt, so if you carry like a bunch of water in it, it's not going to sag down on your shoulders. It's so thin and small so you can put it in... if you're traveling for two weeks with just a carry-on, you can squish it into your carry-on. You have a daypack for hikes or whatever.
Shelby Stanger:
Yeah, we take it everywhere.
Emily Pennington:
Yes. Oh my gosh. The 22 is also good, the 22-liter, but for under $50, the 18, I think it even has a little ice ax-
Shelby Stanger:
I have the 18. Yep.
Emily Pennington:
... or trucking pole loop. It has a cinch top so you can open and close it with mittens. Yeah, I'm obsessed with this pack. It's always coming in fun, cute prints, too. I think they're constantly changing it.
Shelby Stanger:
What's on your holiday wishlist?
Emily Pennington:
Oh man. I mean, I mentioned I really just want to get a good mountain bike at some point. I went mountain biking this weekend at this dude ranch that I was staying at for a travel story, and they had the really nice ones with the seat dropper posts and I was like, "This is incredible." The engineering that goes into a good lightweight mountain bike amazes me.
Shelby Stanger:
That's a pretty good wishlist.
Emily Pennington:
It sounds like a Santa wishlist.
Shelby Stanger:
Yeah.
Emily Pennington:
Santa, please bring me a mountain bike down the chimney.
Shelby Stanger:
The gear we take on adventures really does matter. We want things that last, that are crafted with care, and that feel like us. Over time, your gloves, your stove, your favorite camping mug and beanie, they all carry memories like an old photo album. When you set up your tent or settle into your camp chair, you remember every back country site you've slept at and the marshmallows you've roasted sitting around the campfire. Good gear becomes part of our story.
I hope this episode gives you ideas for your own wishlist this holiday season, and most of all gets you thinking about the big wild ideas you have in store for 2026. We'll link up all the gear we talked about today in the show notes. We'll also include links to REI's holiday gift guides on expert advice with even more recommendations for all the outdoorsy people in your life. Be sure to share this episode with your favorite gearheads so they can weight in, and if you have a favorite piece of gear, let us know in a review wherever you listen. If you want to follow Emily, check her out on Instagram, @brazenbackpacker. That's B-R-A-Z-E-N-B-A-C-K-P-A-C-K-E-R. You can also find her book, Feral, about traveling to all 63 national parks on Amazon and wherever books are sold.
Wild Ideas Worth Living is part of the REI Podcast Network. It's hosted by me, Shelby Stanger, produced by Annie Fassler, Sylvia Thomas, and Sam Peers Nitzberg of Puddle Creative. Our Senior Producer is Jenny Barber. Our Executive Producers are Paolo Mottola and Joe Crosby. As always, we love it when you follow the show, take time to rate it, and write a review wherever you listen. Remember, some of the best adventures happen when you follow your wildest ideas.