At a young age, Chris Sharma was considered a climbing prodigy and won multiple competitions. He established some of the most challenging routes around the world, and pushed the sport forward technically and culturally. Recently, Chris and his longtime friend, fellow climber and actor, Jason Momoa, came up with the idea to produce a competitive reality show based on rock climbing. Their creative brainchild has become the binge-worthy TV show, The Climb— available on Max, previously known as HBO Max. Today, Chris talks about what it was like to make the series, and we hear from Cat Runner about his experience on the show and his climbing community, the Queer Climber's Network.
At a young age, Chris Sharma was considered a climbing prodigy and won multiple competitions. He established some of the most challenging routes around the world, and pushed the sport forward technically and culturally. Recently, Chris and his longtime friend, fellow climber and actor, Jason Momoa, came up with the idea to produce a competitive reality show based on rock climbing. Their creative brainchild has become the binge-worthy TV show, The Climb— available on Max, previously known as HBO Max.
Today, Chris talks about what it was like to make the series, and we hear from Cat Runner about his experience on the show and his climbing community, the Queer Climber's Network.
WARNING: this episode contains spoilers for The Climb.
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Shelby Stanger:
A few years ago, I interviewed Chris Sharma, one of the most influential climbers of all time. At a young age, Chris was considered a climbing prodigy and won multiple competitions. He's established some of the most challenging routes around the world, and he's pushed the sport forward technically and culturally. Recently, Chris decided to go after a different type of wild idea. He and his longtime friend, fellow climber and actor, Jason Momoa, came up with the idea to produce a competitive reality show based on rock climbing. Their creative brainchild has become the binge-worthy TV show, The Climb.
Chris Sharma:
So Jason and I decided to start a competition to inspire the next generation of climbers.
Speaker 3:
Yes, come on.
Chris Sharma:
10 amateur climbers with the dream of becoming professionals will go head-to-head on some of nature's most incredible rock.
Speaker 3:
Oh, my God.
Speaker 4:
This is a competition, and if you have the ability to win, then you need to take it.
Chris Sharma:
This is one of the most-
Shelby Stanger:
The Climb is available on Max, previously known as HBO Max. Today on the podcast, Chris talks about what it was like to make the series, and later on we'll hear from the winner of the competition. That means this episode contains spoilers for The Climb. So if you're interested in the show, put this episode on pause and don't come back until you've seen who wins it all. Consider yourself warned. I'm Shelby Stanger, and this is Wild Ideas Worth Living, an REI Co-op Studios production. Johnny and I got really into watching The Climb earlier this year. Over the course of eight episodes, a group of amateur climbers go head-to-head, competing for a cash prize and a major sponsorship from Prana. Instead of manufacturing conflict between contestants like other reality shows, Chris and the other producers of The Climb focused on the actual climbing. Chris Sharma, welcome back to Wild Ideas Worth Living.
Chris Sharma:
Yeah, great to see you, Shelby.
Shelby Stanger:
Today I really want to talk to you about this show that Johnny and I fell in love with on HBO Max, The Climb. It was so good. I've never been hooked into a game type show, like I have The Climb. Good job.
Chris Sharma:
Oh, that's cool. That's good to hear. Yeah, I'm happy you liked it.
Shelby Stanger:
How did it come to be? How did you guys come up with the idea? Was it you and Jason Momoa?
Chris Sharma:
Yeah, I think there was a bunch of different factors that came together. Obviously, starting with my friendship with Jason and our desire to collaborate in some way. Of course, I've always been involved in climbing media and he's obviously a movie star. So the medium of storytelling through some sort of visual arts, it made sense to film something cool and we were flushing out a lot of different ideas and brainstorming and this is what we came to. And all the while, I never really took this very seriously. I was like, "We'll see whatever comes of this, I'm not going to have my hopes up" because there's a lot of opportunities that come your way, but never actually materialize. But I think certainly having Jason on my team, that made things a lot easier to get this in front of the right people and we kind of created a concept and then went from there. We pitched it.
Shelby Stanger:
A lot of people don't know that Jason is such a great climber and you guys have known each other for years. So before he was ever a Hollywood movie star in Aquaman and more, he was a climber.
Chris Sharma:
Jason is kind of as OG as it gets. We met back in the day climbing Waco tanks in Texas. Both of us were camping out in the desert, total dirt bag style, and he was just another one of the climbers. And so we had met on several different occasions and hung out, lost touch for a long time, and then ended up connecting through social media. And it's just cool to see climbing has been part of his DNA for a long time.
It's just something that grounds him, that he's super passionate about. And so I think it was a really special opportunity for both of us. And suddenly, we were pitching this to all of these big platforms, speaking with the head executives of HBO Max, and then suddenly, we got green lit to make this show. And so it got really real, really quick, and then things got more serious, and then we had to really dive in to the nuts and bolts and how are we going to really make this? And the thing that's cool for me though, throughout my life and my career, that I've had these experiences, obviously through climbing, but they've enabled me to learn and experience all these new things beyond just going climbing. So this show is definitely one of those.
Shelby Stanger:
What did you learn?
Chris Sharma:
Yeah, well, I mean, being put into this position of executive producer and creating this concept for this show and then building it out. And then once we were actually filming it, being on camera in a different way that I hadn't been before, I'm usually the talent, climbing in front of the camera. And this time, I was kind of more of a supporting role. And so it was a lot of new hats to wear and then get to meet all of these climbers as well and get to take them on this ride of a lifetime around the world essentially, and help them realize their potential, which was really special to enable somebody else to have this profound life-changing experience. So for me too, it was stepping into this more of a role of mentorship, but all the while, we're working with all of the producers and executives and how we're building out the show and then all the logistics, and so it was a lot of unique challenges. But yeah, I'm grateful for all of those experiences and it's cool to see the finished product.
Shelby Stanger:
You were coaching these climbers. I mean, what was that like to be a mentor?
Chris Sharma:
Yeah, it was very cool. Like I said earlier, it really was a unique challenge for me because I was kind of taking on this new role for myself as a mentor to these climbers. I was also taking on a new role of being a TV host in a way, that was a totally new experience as well.
And so there was a lot of new things that I was adapting to, but for me, I just wanted to be as real as possible as myself, but also with them, I really wanted to try to make that experience authentic for them, that, look, I'm going to take you on this journey and I'm going to try to push you out of your comfort zone. I want to try to help you guys realize your potential as climbers. And yeah, I think it was... I was in their position a long time ago, and so I know what an amazing opportunity it is for them. This is a golden opportunity. And so I just really wanted to put them into situations to encourage them to keep deepening their experience and understanding and appreciation for climbing and nature and their own relationship with those things and keep stoking their passion for it.
Shelby Stanger:
I love it. There's no other activity that I've found in the outdoors that's such a great metaphor for life. You are going to fail and fall and it's just part of it. And you have to get really comfortable with falling and with failure because when you rock climb, you try and you fail, and then eventually, the failing gets easier and then you get more success.
Chris Sharma:
Yeah, I think it depends whatever it is that you decide that it's going to be your thing in life with any endeavor, right? It's like, this is going to be your reflection of yourself. You really want to realize yourself through this activity, then you're going to have to push yourself and you're going to have to confront failure. And it can feel very, very vulnerable sometimes to put yourself into those positions. But that's really where I think the payoff is too, of exposing yourself to that vulnerability of giving it your all. And it may or may not work out. But that's the only way you'll risk actually realizing the best version of yourself. And so you have to put yourself out there and it is scary, but it's also very cool, right?
Shelby Stanger:
Chris co-hosts the show with world renowned climber, Meagan Martin. Together they guide the contestants to be stronger climbers across all sorts of terrain. In the first climb of the series, one of the contestants isn't trying his best, he's more focused on making it to the next round. He purposefully jumps off the wall after reaching a point on the route where he's safe from elimination. The next day, everyone is at a bar analyzing their performance on the challenge.
That's when Chris addresses that contestant's choice to jump. And it sparks an interesting conversation among the climbers about the value of pushing yourself. These kinds of thoughtful moments intertwined with suspenseful climbs, make for a truly enjoyable and totally bingeable watch. When we come back, we'll talk to the climber who won the whole competition about their experience on the show and what life has been like since their victory.
In the very first episode of The Climb, 10 amateur climbers scale a cliff that leans over the churning waves off the coast of Myorca Spain. It's their deep water solo challenge. And the goal, of course, is to get to the top of the cliff, but most of the climbers slip off the wall, falling into the water below. In this challenge, only two of the 10 contestants complete the route. One of those two goes on to win the whole competition: Cat Runner.
Cat works as a commercial photographer and filmmaker. When he's not working, he's heading out to climb crags near his home in Louisville, Kentucky. Cat started climbing when he was a kid, scrambling up trees and playgrounds even up onto his kitchen counter. Seven years ago, he started taking climbing a little more seriously and he's become super talented. On the show, Cat usually found himself at the head of the pack, making it farther on the roots than most of his fellow competitors. Cat Runner, welcome to Wild Ideas Worth Living. I'm so excited to have you on, and it's crazy because I feel like I know you. I've seen you, I've been watching your show, The Climb on HBO for a couple weeks now. It's really cool.
Cat Runner:
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be a part of the podcast and the whole experience on The Climb was just... It is incredible and it's still going. It hasn't stopped. Once the show was finally televised and then the finale came out and ended, it became very clear that that was just the beginning of whatever's to come.
Shelby Stanger:
Isn't it funny that we think that the finish line is the finish line, but sometimes the finish line is the start of something totally different?
Cat Runner:
Absolutely.
Shelby Stanger:
How did you hear about casting for The Climb?
Cat Runner:
So there was an open casting call and I had a lot of the climbing community knew about it and I was like, "Oh, it was interesting." Wasn't necessarily going to apply because I didn't know how it was being done, how you got on people's radar, how you got into the pile of applications. And at the time also, I had an event, a conflicting event scheduled for when they projected the shooting time to begin. And then that event got canceled and at the same time, I saw the open casting call on Instagram with the link on how to submit an interest form. And so I was like, "You know what, why not? If it doesn't happen, the only thing that's going to change is I'm not going to be on the show. I'm still going to be climbing. And if it does happen, then we have queer representation, we have trans representation, it's going to be included." And that was always important to me is that the representation is there. It was also like, international climbing trip, paid international climbing trip.
Shelby Stanger:
I was waiting for you to be like, wait, you also just want to... I love that your why is bigger than you, Cat. I love that. And that's, I think, what kept you in the game of The Climb so focused and what helped you win. But come on, you are getting to go with Sharma to Mallorca and all these other people. You had been kind of stoked about that too.
Cat Runner:
Yeah, for sure. It's like the worst thing that you can get selected and then if you lose the first week, still paid international climbing trip.
Shelby Stanger:
So what's the quick Cliff Notes of what the process was like to kind of get there? How much time did you actually have?
Cat Runner:
So everyone's interview timeline was a little bit different. Mine was around two months, but we did an interest form, submitted a climbing resume. I think we sent in some videos of us climbing and stuff. And then we went into online interviews and did a couple of those. And then part of the open casting call and what made the show so interesting and so different was that it was really going to delve into multiple disciplines of climbing, rather than just focusing in sport, just focusing in bouldering, just focusing in multi-pitch. We touched the majority of all of them. The only major one that we didn't touch was ice climbing. So that was a part of the casting call, that was a part of the pitch in addition to it just being an international climbing competition. So it was like, "Okay, well I'm well-rounded enough in my technique and my ability that I can adapt to things pretty well. I just need to learn the technique of it."
So as I was prepping, I was reaching out to my friends like, "All right, can you talk me through how to do trad climbing? Because I've never done it before. Can you talk me through it so that I'm not a total lost cause if I'm get that far?" But just, I was really relying on just my adaptability of like, all right, I understand the systems. I may not have the muscle memory that makes it fluid, but I have enough to get me through and hopefully that's enough.
Shelby Stanger:
Over eight episodes, the show features all different kinds of climbing: deep water soloing, sport climbing, bouldering and more, all set against stunning natural backdrops. All of the contestants compete in the main climb and the bottom two performers go head-to-head in an elimination challenge. One of my favorite things about the show is that even though they're competing against each other, the climbers are all so dang supportive. They're constantly cheering on whomever's the wall, encouraging them to keep pushing. In the interviews between challenges, you also get to learn about each climber's background. One of them was in school for pre-med while filming. Another had come back from a severe back injury. One had to miss a climb due to COVID. These stories helped develop the contestants as complex, multifaceted humans and help us as viewers, get to know them on a deeper level.
Are you happy with how your story was told?
Cat Runner:
I'm really happy with how my story was told. Whenever I come in as my identities, which are often minority identities and are commodities and people tokenize and capitalize on them and do all the things, you don't know how your story's going to be told or how it's going to... If it's going to be respected. And I thought they did it beautifully because also coming in as a minority, but specifically queer or trans, that often with our stories, whoever's creating the story or writing it, you become the trans climber or being trans is your entire identity, not a part of who you are.
Being trans, for me, is as equally as important as me being a climber because they make up two incredible parts about who I am and how I navigate this world, but one does not override the other. And I really, really liked how they just kind of introduced the fact that I'm trans because it wasn't like a big headlight on it. There wasn't a megaphone. It was like this very subtle like, "Oh, here's this additional thing about me, now, okay, let's go back. We're here, we're climbers," which is the way it should be done.
Shelby Stanger:
I like that. I thought it was really well done. I mean, this show was about climbing and they showed Kat, a badass climber, who also happens to be trans, who happens to be all these other things, who happens to be really nice, who everybody wants to be teammates with because you're such a good teammate. You work really well with others. What's something that since you've been back after winning this show, what's been awesome that you didn't expect?
Cat Runner:
I've been receiving so many messages from trans people and allies and just queer people in general who may have fallen out of the sport or felt like they were pushed out of the sport because it was unsafe and are now coming in and trying it again or trying it for the first time. I've received messages, trans people saying that they finally feel seen in the climbing community because they have a representative and they're proud of that representative. So I think just all of the messages of the visibility is really incredible. That was my main priority.
I wanted to get on the show not necessarily to win, just to make sure that that representation was included, to make sure that we were there and we weren't omitted from history. And the longer that I stayed in the competition, it meant the harder it is for someone to ignore my community, to ignore my transness. It increases the likelihood that people are going to talk about it, which is what we really need right now is trans people, is we need to be in daily conversation. I need people to talk about trans topics to someone other than me because there is a barrage of anti-trans legislation that's going on that's really harmful and really scary and it makes showing up very hard.
Shelby Stanger:
I appreciate that a lot, and I actually really liked how your story was told.
Cat Runner:
I did too.
Shelby Stanger:
Okay. I really want to talk to you about The Queer Climbing Network. Tell us a little bit about when and why you created it and how you hope it impacts the climbing community.
Cat Runner:
Something that I've always been passionate about is community, and particularly making The Climbing community more accessible and more welcoming for my queer and trans community as well. And what I've noticed as I've been in the community and looking for groups is that this is... And this is a function of The Climbing community as a whole, not just specifically for queer and trans people, but there are groups creating spaces and doing the work, but there's no marketing about it. It's really hard to find unless you have been told about it through word of mouth or you see the ads internally at your gym. So with The Queer Climbers Network, what I wanted to create was a resource database that all of this information lives on because there are groups doing the work. So I wanted to create a master calendar of all the queer climbing events that I can find. So that one, people who aren't in the climbing community, here's a space if you want to come in and try it.
Shelby Stanger:
What do you hope people take away from watching The Climb?
Cat Runner:
I hope it humanizes trans people. We are almost always immediately dehumanized and objectified, and it makes it easier to discriminate against a group of people who you don't believe are real people, but I'm just like you. I have passions, I have drive, I have motivation. The only difference is that my transness and my identity may influence different objectives and may influence different problems that I face than you, but that's the only difference.
Shelby Stanger:
Cat hopes that his presence on the show and his work on The Queer Climbers Network will continue to make this sport more accessible to LGBTQ climbers. His vision is that queer climbers can go anywhere in the world and find people that welcome them. For Cat, community is an essential part of his success as a climber. He trains with a supportive group of people at home and he found a similar sense of camaraderie with his fellow contestants on the show.
There was a lot of joy on that show.
Cat Runner:
Oh yes.
Shelby Stanger:
I liked that. Because you all got along and were such good buddies. Is there anything really funny that happened that maybe we didn't see or that you love to tell people about?
Cat Runner:
There were so many unforgettable memories made that did not make the cut. As a whole, what you see on the show is only a snippet of what we experienced. You get a bit of the trials and tribulations we were put through, but only a bit. I think the funniest thing that we've just as a group, have been enjoying experiencing, we experienced it and now as a group, we're also experiencing it coming out and we're experiencing the aftermath of it together and we all play into it and joke with it equally.
We were all having the most fun with the Brad and Robin love story, that the show gave, which did not happen. But we just had so much fun with that and as it was coming out and just talking with each other and I was telling them, I was like, "Look, you all got to put out a statement or something because I have people asking me." There's just kind of funny things that we've experienced together as a group in the behind the scenes. What has also been funny, let me just set the record straight. If you watch the subtitles with the show, my friends have not let it go. When I come down from the climb in Siurana, I say, "Toes be cramping." But the subtitles put, "These hoes be cramping." So that was a funny one. That was a good one.
Shelby Stanger:
That's a good typo. I like that. Okay, I really want to talk to you about what was it like when you won The Climb?
Cat Runner:
It took me a really long time to process it because I was so shocked when Dom fell.
Speaker 4:
There it is.
Speaker 3:
Wow.
Speaker 4:
Cat won.
Speaker 7:
Yeah.
Speaker 3:
Found ourselves a winner.
Speaker 7:
That was amazing.
Speaker 3:
I'm so proud of them.
Speaker 7:
Good job, dude.
Cat Runner:
I'm super psyched that I won the competition. This has been amazing. It made fighting worth it, and I'm so grateful to be able to go home and share my love for climbing with so many more people.
Speaker 3:
Crushed it.
Cat Runner:
And I think there was also... It was kind of just like, wow, this is the end of this thing that we've been on for three, four months, and it took a long time to just process it ending, processing the results and processing what that means for the future. So it was very, I think, slow. There was never a moment where I was like, "Oh my God, I won. I'm celebrating all these things."
Shelby Stanger:
What have you learned about yourself? You've had a year since this show was filmed, and I'm sure you learned a ton. What's something that you learned that maybe other people listening can benefit from?
Cat Runner:
I really learned about where my climbing thrives from, and there was always the twinge of it inside, that I knew kind of what drew me to climbing and what really pushed me and what motivated me. But being on The Climb and just this overall experience cemented it. And that is that for me, I love climbing hard. I love climbing my limit, but somewhere in the seven years that I've been climbing, that it shifted from performance to community because I really thrive off the people that I'm around. And if I'm with good people, then I'm having a great freaking time.
Shelby Stanger:
If you haven't seen it yet, I highly recommend watching The Climb. It's a suspenseful, feel-good series that will inspire you to get out and do more climbing of your own, whether it's in a nearby gym, at your local crag, or it might even inspire you to book a trip out of the country like it did for me.
You can find the show on Max, previously, HBO Max, Chris Sharma, and Cat Runner, thank you so much for coming on Wild Ideas Worth Living. If you want to learn more about Chris Sharma, you can follow him on Instagram at Chris underscore Sharma. That's C-H-R-I-S underscore S-H-A-R-M-A. You can also check out his website, chrissharma.com and visit his climbing gyms if you happen to be in Spain. There's one in Barcelona, one in Madrid, and one in Gava. To stay in touch with Cat and keep up with his latest adventures, you can follow him on Instagram at Cat like a cat. That's C-A-T-L-I-K-E-A-C-A-T. You can find The Queer Climbers Network on Instagram at QueerClimbersNetwork or queerclimbersnetwork.com. On the site, you can find meetups as well as events and grant and scholarship opportunities.
Wild Ideas Worth Living is part of the REI Podcast Network. It's hosted by me, Shelby Stanger, produced by Annie Fassler, Sylvia Thomas, and Sam Peers Nitzberg of Puddle Creative. And our senior producer is Jenny Barber. Our executive producers are Paolo Mottola and Joe Crosby. As always, we love when you follow this show, rate it and take the time to write a review wherever you listen. And remember, some of the best adventures happen when you follow your wildest idea.