Wild Ideas Worth Living

Finding Yourself in Climbing with Mario Stanley

Episode Summary

Mario Stanley started rock climbing in his early twenties before becoming a climbing coach and an outdoor guide which eventually led him to starting his own company, Highpoint Expeditions. He’s learned over the years that climbing is about more than scaling to the top of a wall. It's is an exercise in freedom, trust, and pushing through fear.

Episode Notes

Mario Stanley started rock climbing in his early twenties and quickly fell in love with the sport. He became a climbing coach and an outdoor guide, and now runs his own company, Highpoint Expeditions. Climbing gave Mario’s life a sense of direction at a time when he was feeling lost. He’s learned over the years that it’s about more than scaling to the top of a wall. Climbing is an exercise in freedom, trust, and pushing through fear.

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Episode Transcription

Mario Stanley: 

But I look at suffering as it is the effort, it is the amount of toughness, it is the amount of everything that  you're willing to go through to have the shot to potentially reach your objective. Rock climbing is a  tremendous amount of failure for one moment of success, so you need to digest that in a really healthy  way where that feeling serves you to help you keep pushing towards the process. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Mario Stanley knows all about the challenges of rock climbing. He's been scaling and bouldering walls  with and without ropes inside gyms and out in nature for 15 years. The sport gave Mario a sense of  direction at a time when he was feeling lost. His years of experience have allowed him to turn rock  climbing into a full-time career. Mario coaches kids and he guides adults on outdoor adventures. As a  mentor, Mario has learned that climbing is about more than just scaling to the top of a wall. It's an  exercise in freedom, trust, and pushing through fear. 

Shelby Stanger: 

I'm Shelby Stanger, and this is Wild Ideas Worth Living. 

Shelby Stanger: 

A lot of Mario's students are between ages 3 and 18. 3 sounds pretty young, I know, but you should  check out the videos of the kiddos climbing on YouTube. It's wild. Mario, on the other hand, didn't start  climbing until his early 20s, but the sport basically took over his life. 10 years ago, Mario founded his  own adventure guiding company called Highpoint Expeditions, and he's been coaching for even longer. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Mario Stanley, welcome to Wild Ideas Worth Living. 

Mario Stanley: 

Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm super excited to be here. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Tell me how you got into rock climbing. How did you discover the sport? 

Mario Stanley: 

I wish I had this really, really great story for that, but the honest truth is I was looking to take a girl on a  date and I just Googled something activity. I didn't want to go to a movie. I didn't want to... I just didn't  want to do anything boring, and I chose rock climbing at an indoor climbing gym, and she hated it. I  loved it, and so I started volunteering there very quickly after, and then my volunteering led to  employment, and employment led to management. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Okay. So, first of all, good on you for being original and wanting to take a girl to do something fun and  adventurous, not to just dinner and a movie. I think that's great. What about rock climbing did you love  that very first time? I know it's hard to remember that many years ago, but-

Mario Stanley: 

Oh, no. It's not. I remember it like it was yesterday. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Okay. Tell me. 

Mario Stanley: 

Absolutely. I found drive. I found something that just revved my engines, not just physically but  intellectually, because at first you're just moving, you feel cool, whatever. But then there hits a point  with any sport where you actually have to start thinking. You have to have at least a general  understanding of whether you can go right, left, sideways, up, down, diagonal, not just up and down. 

Shelby Stanger: 

I'm curious. When most people go to the climbing gym for the first time, they suck. You have to try again  and try again, and it's pretty easy to try again because it's right in front of you. And you fail and you fail,  but if you keep trying and you fail and you keep failing and then you keep trying again, eventually you  stop failing and you start succeeding. And that, to me, is where your brain starts changing. 

Mario Stanley: 

Mm-hmm. 

Shelby Stanger: 

So that first time, were you scared? There's also this element of fear in climbing that I find 

Mario Stanley: 

Oh, no. I was with it. 

Shelby Stanger: 

You were with it. 

Mario Stanley: 

No, absolutely. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Okay. 

Mario Stanley: 

I was with it. 

Shelby Stanger: 

You don't have fear. 

Mario Stanley:

Well, no I do. I 

Shelby Stanger: 

You do. Okay. 

Mario Stanley: 

Let's not get out of hand here. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Okay. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. 

Mario Stanley: 

No, I am definitely... a healthy dose of fear of life, God, and all things in the world. But fear, once again,  is... your feelings can be... I forget who said this, but your feelings can be your master or your servant.  You decide who you want them to be. I choose the latter. And so when I'm scared of something, but I've  already made the decision to do it... And I think if you are at the point where you're scared to do  something, you've probably done so much homework and work and different things to get yourself to  this point that you already know how to do it. It's just a matter of doing it. 

Mario Stanley: 

And so with climbing, the beauty of indoor rock climbing is we make routes easy enough for everyone  that you can pretty much just walk up and do it as long as you have a little gumption and you know how  to go up and down a set of stairs. There's always something for someone, and that is the joy and that is  the experience. Once you get off the ground and you start moving under your own power, the whole  world changes. We walk our whole lives, and when you start going vertical, it's empowering. 

Shelby Stanger: 

You mentioned something that I thought was really interesting. You said it was the first sport that gave  you drive, and I'm really interested in this concept with wild ideas and why we do them and why we  keep doing them. And I find that this thread is it's kind of like purpose, but it's something different. It's  like when you find surfing and you're like, "Okay, I want to keep doing this because it's fun and it feels  good, but it's also something that I want to wake up and do the next day and then get better at." Talk to  me about why rock climbing did that to you on this date. 

Mario Stanley: 

Well, I think the thing is ... So kind of going to the whole concept of drive, you kind of hit the nail on the  head there when you talked about wanting to get better. When you have drive, there is intent, and this  is kind of the coach side of me coming out. Drive without direction is chaos. You're just going to get  really frustrated. You're just going to get mad. It's just not going to work out. 

Mario Stanley: 

When I started climbing, I found myself having to be extremely present in every part of my body and  everything that was going on, and it honestly gave me a little bit of peace at a time, especially in a time  of my life where I had left school, I was kind of on my own for the first time, living in my own apartment.  It was just kind of a really down time. I wasn't in a relationship. I was just kind of beating myself up. I would say this. I was on the road to nowhere really fast. And to me that's sometimes if you're on the  road somewhere bad, at least you have a chance to course correct. But if you're on the road to  somewhere good, it's good. But if you're going on the road to nowhere, that means you're blind to  what's happening and you're just on autopilot. And climbing for me really kind of saved my life in that  mentality where it gave me a little bit of purpose. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Many of us have experienced feeling lost or just being stuck on autopilot. Sometimes it's hard to know  where to go next. For Mario, finding the climbing gym was like a light bulb that illuminated his path  forward. Pretty soon, Mario was spending all of his free time at the gym. He'd been at it for about a year  when he finally decided to try climbing outdoors. 

Shelby Stanger: 

I think what's so cool about rock climbing is it's something indoors that led you to the outside, and I  don't know any other sport that really does that. So you were 20-something when you first rock climbed  indoors. Was it someone at the climbing gym who invited you to go outdoor climbing? 

Mario Stanley: 

Yeah, my buddy Kenzie and my buddy Rob. And I had been climbing in the gym, I had been there for  quite a while, and I just hadn't gone outside yet. So we'd picked a date. Kenzie was like, "You need to get  all these things. If there's anything you don't have, let me know." And then we'd wake up at 2:00 in the  morning or 3:00 in the morning, drive all the way down to Reimer's Ranch, climb all day right when the  park got open, go camp, and then turn around and leave almost at the same time the next day. 

Shelby Stanger: 

I want to know, how did your perception of the outdoors change then, from rock climbing from when  you were a kid? You probably had a very different perception of what outdoorsy was and what the  outdoors were like. And now you have a different perception. 

Mario Stanley: 

Very much so. I just thought outdoorsy shit was just white people bearded shit. That's really what I  thought. I thought it was just complete white people stuff. You had to look like the Brawny man and  that's it, growing up as a kid. Because I just didn't see anybody out there. There were people out there  that looked like me doing it, but far and few between. There was just no representation, so I just never  saw it so it was never thought process in my mind.I could never think that I would be a rock climber. If  you asked me as a kid, I would've never told you that. 

Mario Stanley: 

So I think the point where nature really kind of took its hold on me and I really noticed its awe and its  magnitude was probably two major climbing trips. My first time at the Red River Gorge in Kentucky. You  just walk into that place and it's like walking amongst the trees. You feel like you're in a land of giants.  It's mythical. It's the stuff that fairy tales are made out of, when you're walking around there for the very  first time, especially if you've never seen this before. You've never 

Shelby Stanger:

I've never heard of it or seen it. Tell me about this place. 

Mario Stanley: 

Oh, the Red is this beautiful gorge just covered in woodlands, and it's just beautiful overhanging  sandstone. There's trad there. There's everything there. You can climb an entire lifetime and not climb  every route at the Red. And it's in the middle of this forest in Kentucky. There's these towering trees.  They're probably a couple hundred feet, 200 feet tall. They're the size of, some of them are as wide as  cars. They're just massive. And I just remember that feeling of just being in this magical place. 

Mario Stanley: 

The outdoors was a way for me to get outdoors and climb and sharpen my climbing skills because it was  fun. But my relationship with nature and climbing changed when I went to the Red and especially when I  went to Red Rocks, Las Vegas. That place, if you've ever been there, it is just, it's this weird oasis right  outside of the city. And with a few minutes' hiking, you can be in towering sandstone canyons, climbing  thousand foot plus feet. And there's thousands of routes, of all grades ,of all varying difficulties, and it  just... 

Mario Stanley: 

I don't know. I think at that point I started really looking at the outdoors in a way of I really want to have  more opportunities to get to places like this, and so I guess I started caring about it more. I started  having a little bit more of intimate relationship. I think that's when I joined the Access Fund for the first  time. And I think I would probably call myself a moderate activist. I care about it and I try to show it with  my dollars and I try to show it with my actions and in the kids that I coach, because I take them outdoors  rock climbing too. 

Mario Stanley: 

And when they get a chance to actually climb outdoors, I think it changes their perspective very much of  the sport. And they learn that it's this massive world. Rock climbing is a worldwide thing. And I think it  just gives you a better appreciation for this Earth and this place that we live because you also have to  understand that you have a very big job of stewarding them. For me, I think that's how climbing has  probably changed my relationship with the outdoors. I never really knew about it that much, nor did I  care about it, and now I have such a sense of urgency to protect it and make sure there's more of it  available. 

Shelby Stanger: 

How did you decide to become a coach and then a guide? 

Mario Stanley: 

So coaching happened... Funny enough, I didn't have a car for a very long time living in Dallas. My car  broke down and I was kind of in that point in my life where I'm like, 'Do I buy a bicycle and still be able to  eat and pay rent? Or do I buy a car and go broke?" And I was like, "All right, bicycle." And so that all  whole thing leads up to one day I was going to go get lunch for all the rest of the crew, and only the few  of the guys knew I didn't have a car. 

Mario Stanley:

So one of them let me borrow his car, and I actually got into a small fender bender. So I came back, I told  him, and I didn't have any money to pay him, so I just started working for him in the youth program. And  I was like, "How about this?" We came up to an agreement. I'll work for nine months, two days a week,  and then we'll call it even. Well, at the end of nine months, he just didn't want to do this class anymore  and he was like, "Do you want to run this class?" And once I just kind of did the math, I was like, "Okay, I  can make money doing this." And I saw that the program could grow. My coaching has evolved over the  years, but essentially, I'm trying to teach the kids not to grow up and be a jerk through rock climbing and  their own failures and success. Because rock climbing is a tremendous amount of failure for one glorious  moment of success. So those are the teachable moments that I have with kids. 

Shelby Stanger: 

How do you teach kids how to be good humans through climbing? What are some of your techniques  and tactics? 

Mario Stanley: 

I think the biggest thing is... It's really a complicated thing to answer that question because the reality is  each kid is so different. But I think that I can sum it down into this, is ego and insecurity are the same  thing. So when failure happens, it is your job as a coach to identify whether their ego is involved or  whether they physically just can't do the move and knowing how to kind of navigate those both.  Because sometimes they can't do the move, but they don't care. Sometimes they can't do the move and  then their ego's involved and they think that they're a terrible climber, they think they're a terrible  person, and you're just managing their emotions. 

Mario Stanley: 

Realistically, what you're trying to do is you're trying to be present. You're trying to listen to them, and  you're trying to encourage them to do the assignment that is in front of them and get them to give you  permission to coach them consistently. And I think that's the hardest thing. And in that interaction, you  are teaching them how to be just a nice human being, and you're teaching them how to interact. 

Shelby Stanger: 

I think this struggle with ego happens to a lot of athletes. I know there are times when I haven't been  able to paddle out on a bigger day surfing, and it's hard not to wonder if there's something wrong with  me. As we learn to overcome our insecurities, we can also practice compassion for ourselves and for  other people. Guiding someone through those feelings of doubt is an incredibly valuable skill,  particularly in a coach. When we come back, Mario talks about getting over fear and the lessons he's  learned from climbing, plus he talks about his podcast, Sends and Suffers. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Climber Mario Stanley discovered rock climbing on a date. He didn't fall for the woman he went with,  but he did fall for the sport. He says climbing saved his life. It gave him a sense of direction and passion.  Within a year of his first outdoor climbing trip, Mario was coaching kids at his gym. A few years later,  Mario founded his own company, Highpoint Expeditions, to guide people on outdoor climbing trips  around Dallas, Texas. 

Shelby Stanger:

There are a lot of challenging aspects of climbing. Some are physical, like gear or strength, but some are  mental. How do you teach people to get over fear? Because in rock climbing, if you fall or you get unclipped or  something happens, it's high consequences. 

Mario Stanley: 

Yeah. I mean the stakes are high, but I think the thing is people have to understand, there's billions of  dollars that goes into equipment and gear. Odds are you're not going to hit the ground. The only time  you're going to hit the ground is user error. It's one of those things. If it works, it works. And I know that  is the worst thing to say, but with climbing, once you learn the skills, and a lot of people say the hard  skills are knowing how to grip these holds and grab onto a sloper and do a mantle and do all these cool  moves on the wall. That's the hard skills. And I say, those are the soft skills. Those are the easiest ones to  learn. The hardest skills to learn are the things like using equipment. 

Mario Stanley: 

I think the biggest barrier to climbing is just accepting that you don't know what to do and you're going  to make a lot of mistakes. And so how I teach people to get over their fear is by getting them to master a  skill, and then the mastery of that skill produces good hormones in their brain and they'll latch onto  that. And it's just a build, and you build on top of [inaudible 00:15:53]. And I'm not saying fear is not a  part of it. It's still very much a part of it. But when you fall, you have a working knowledge of if  everything goes according to plan, then I'm not going to hit the ground. I might get banged up a little bit.  It's not without some risks. 

Mario Stanley: 

The next step is getting people to trust themselves. I say 50% of all rock climbing comes from your abs  and your legs, 25% comes from your arms, the last 25% is just don't scare the crap out of yourself. Once  you've got all these other tools down, you really give someone a really good foundation to climb off of  and build off of. And then from that moment on, it just really is identifying, hey, is it a strength problem,  is it a climbing problem, or is it a you problem? And we have to have those conversations a lot. And that  is how I think most people in climbing get over their fears, at least all my athletes that I train and coach. I  think that's really my coaching style and how I get people past that. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Being a coach and a guide, it comes with a lot of responsibility, and it's one of these jobs that isn't  always paid amazing amounts for the impact you have. I was a surf coach for years. Let's change this. I  was a surf teacher, a surf instructor. I pushed people to whitewash 

Mario Stanley: 

Why do you change it from coach? I have to know. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Because I don't think I coached people to... I was a basic coach for years. I taught people how to get up  in whitewater-

Mario Stanley: 

Okay. I got a bone to pick with you real fast. Can I pick a bone with you, super fast? 

Shelby Stanger: 

Kid, let's go. 

Mario Stanley: 

Okay. You are a coach. I think that's the thing you have to understand, that you are a coach. It doesn't  matter what you teach. There are only four coaches, maybe five, that kids come across their lives. There  are the people who introduce them to the sport and get them excited about it, and then the next coach  is someone who identifies they have some form of gumption, whether it's drive, they have actual talent,  but they identify that, and then they grab that kid and then they start to mold them. And then  everything above is your higher level coaches. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Got it. 

Mario Stanley: 

But if you inspired them, then you're a coach. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Okay. Well, thank you for helping me correct that in myself. I appreciate that, and I appreciate that you  push back on me. So I was a beginner coach for years, and it's one of these jobs where you have... I've  never had a job like this. When I do a podcast, I have someone's story in my hands, but I don't have their  life in my hands. When I was a surf coach, I would have someone's life in their hands and all of their  fears and all of their insecurities and all the baggage they took with them to the beach that day. 

Shelby Stanger: 

So I find it a really interesting career and an interesting position to be in that's unlike any other. And I  tell people, go be a guide or a coach. It is the best way to get into the outdoors and experience and give  back, and help take care of the planet, because if you teach someone to love the outside, they're going  to care for it. 

Mario Stanley: 

Agreed. 

Shelby Stanger: 

But it's interesting because you don't think of it like that. So I'm really curious about your relationship  with being a coach and a guide and the responsibility that it comes with and what it's given you. 

Mario Stanley: 

I think coaching and guiding, the biggest thing that they've probably given me is it's given me a kind of  sense of responsibility, because at the end of the day, whatever I have taught you, whatever high I've  shown you, has to be of the highest. And I also have to be someone where if I did something wrong, I have to own up to it. And so I think that it's given me a healthy respect for people who have the ability  to just kind of try something new. It teaches you a certain level of respect. I think that's the first thing. 

Mario Stanley: 

I think the second thing is it gave me a sense of pride, knowing that I'm teaching people. And I think the  last thing is probably the relationships that I've had, because I've taught quite a few people to climb over  the years. So I think those are the three most important things that it's given me. 

Mario Stanley: 

The things that I think that I've unintentionally learned were humility, because I can think of many a  times when... Oh, I was on Mount Whitney years ago climbing and we were just booking and moving,  and I will never, ever, ever, ever forget the moment that I realized we're not going to summit before  dark. And it was just at this moment where I was just like, "Okay, what do I need to do?" And it was just  this humbling moment where it's just like, okay, I didn't plan this well and I don't have time to think  about this right now. I needed to think about what is my best solution? And luckily I had a really good  group of friends who we all put our heads together and we all got through the situation beautifully. And  that whole experience, it was one of the many that I think has taught me a lot of humility, because at  the end of the day, I'm still trying to get better at this sport. And I think ultimately that it also means I'm  trying to be a better person in general too. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Mario doesn't just strive for improvement as a climber. He's also dedicated to becoming a better coach  and guide. People rely on him, and this responsibility has shifted his perspective. At the end of the day,  climbing with others is all about having fun and working together. It's a fulfilling job, but when the  pandemic hit in 2020, Mario had to figure out a way to scratch his itch for adventure, so he started a  podcast called Sends and Suffers. So in the pandemic you started this podcast. 

Mario Stanley: 

Sends and Suffers podcast. Yes. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Sends and Suffers. Talk to me about it. 

Mario Stanley: 

Okay. I guess the only way to say it is pitch for it. So, Sends and Suffers podcast is all about talking about  the sending and suffering that you have done in your life to make you the beautiful person you are  today, and that's all I want to talk to you about. 

Shelby Stanger: 

I love it. And they have to deal with rock climbing though, mostly. 

Mario Stanley: 

Kind of. Yeah. Around the world of rock climbing. So it is a rock climbing podcast because I am a rock  climber, but some of my future guests coming up are paddleboarders or kayakers. One person is an ultra  runner. So I'm going to branch out, but not right now. Primarily it is about rock climbing just because I happen to be a climber and I talk about the things that I'm interested in, but I'm also curious, so I have  this saying that I say, if you're not suffering, are you really sending at all? If you're really not putting  work into it, did you really want it that bad? Was it really that sweet? Was it really that good? Was it  bitter sweet? You know? 

Shelby Stanger: 

Why did you start it? Why did you want this podcast out in the world? 

Mario Stanley: 

So this podcast actually came from a suggestion from a friend, and it came from actually going on  climbing trips with friends. So I don't know if you've gone camping with a bunch of people before, but  generally speaking, most people just kind of partner up. Unless there's this big bonfire and it's really  cold, everyone just partners up in their little groups of who they've been climbing with all day. And it  honestly just bugged me. 

Mario Stanley: 

So I just remember one day I was like, "All right, everyone, everyone, come on over." And I was like, "All  right, here's what I want to hear. I want to hear the sends and the suffers of your day. What was your  send? What was your suffer of the day?" And we'd just go around in a big circle. And I'll never forget  that this guy said his biggest send and suffer of the day, he's like, "My send is being here. Just being  here. My first climbing trip. I'm excited to be here." But then his suffer is what hit everybody in the gut.  He's like, "I traded three shifts and I basically have two or three doubles in a row when I get back to  Dallas," and we were all just looking at it and all of us were blown away. We were like, "I just requested  off for the weekend." You know? 

Shelby Stanger: 

Tell me about these concepts really quickly, more. Sending and suffering, this is such gold. 

Mario Stanley: 

Okay. I look at suffering as it is the effort that you are putting into... It's the amount of BS. It is the  amount of toughness. It is the amount of everything that you're willing to go through to have the shot to  potentially reach your objective. And if you reach your objective, you are sending the mountain. You are  standing on the top of this thing. You get to enjoy the view. 

Mario Stanley: 

But we all know rock climbing's a tremendous amount of failure for one moment of success. So you're  suffering a lot. So you have to kind of look at all that, and you need to digest that in a really healthy way  where that feeling or that thought serves you to help you keep pushing towards the process. And I think  just sharing your vulnerability is the sauce. The whole premise was just to get people at a campfire to  start talking to each other. Inadvertently, people started becoming much better friends and our group  was very strong, and... Yeah. 

Shelby Stanger: 

The feeling of the send is the sauce in the fridge.

Mario Stanley: 

It is the sauce. 

Shelby Stanger: 

It is the sauce. I love that. 

Mario Stanley: 

Don't get me wrong. Everything up leading to it, is that's it. You cooking and working, but yeah, the  sauce is where it's at. 

Shelby Stanger: 

How many shows have you done? 

Mario Stanley: 

I have on air, I think 27 or 37, but I've done close to 40 or 50. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Podcasting's a lot of work. 

Mario Stanley: 

Yeah. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Nobody gets it until they do it. 

Mario Stanley: 

Yeah. No. More power to you. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Any stories that you have of sending and suffering that you think embodies what that means? 

Mario Stanley: 

I would probably have to say a climbing story that I can think of is Will Brock and I were trying to do  Texas Hold 'Em, this route in Black Velvet Canyon, a couple years back in Red Rocks, Las Vegas. And we  were on this climb for two days. We went up it, couldn't figure it out, had to bail, but this thing kicked  our butt and I'll never forget that I was... I think it was pitch five. There's this traverse, and Will's six foot  four, so it's different, very different style of climbing. And he just flutters through this thing and I'm  doing this sideways dyno. A dyno is when all four points come off the wall and you grab onto another  hold. And I was just, literally for hours, and I finally remember him just saying to me like, "Yo, bro, do  you want just... We got to get up this thing. I'll just assist you, but we have to get up this thing because  it's getting dark." And I just remember looking at him like, "All right." 

Mario Stanley:

And I was so defeated and I was going through all this suffering. So maybe the suffering is actually the  sauce. And I just remember the moment I just did not care anymore, the moment I was like, "Okay, I've  done this thing a hundred times. I'm just going to try it one more time. Whether we send this move or  not, we're just going to move on and get past it." And the moment I found that I did not care, I did the  move and it was beautiful, this beautiful sideways dyno, hit the hold, and I just kept on climbing. And  Will's screaming his head off. And I'm just like, "Don't listen to him. Just keep climbing. Just keep  climbing. Just keep climbing," getting to the anchors, and I was freaking hyped. It was really good. It was  a proud, proud, proud moment. 

Mario Stanley: 

But I think that's the thing' is you have to go through a certain amount of suffering for anything to be  worth it. If there isn't a little bitterness, then how do you know if it's really sweet? If there isn't a little bit  of suffering, then how did you know it was really a send? You don't. If you just walked up and did it,  okay. I'll give you your participation ribbon if you want it. But if there is no burn, if there is no suffer, it's  not really worth it. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Rock climbing has taught Mario a lot about pushing himself outside of his comfort zone. He had to do a  little suffering so he could send it. Still, Mario has been very lucky to find a passion that gives him so  much purpose. Now his only goal is to help more people experience the sport that changed his life. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Mario Stanley, I had so much fun talking with you. Your energy and your confidence is just infectious.  Thank you so much for coming on the show. You can all check out Mario's website, mariostanley.com,  for information about all of his endeavors, including Highpoint Expeditions. You can also find his  podcast, Sends and Suffers, anywhere you listen to podcasts. And lastly, you can follow Mario on  Instagram at @mariorstan, that's M-A-R-I-O-R-S-T-A-N. 

Shelby Stanger: 

Wild Ideas Worth Living is part of the REI Podcast Network. It's hosted by me, Shelby Stanger, written  and edited by Annie Fassler and Sylvia Thomas of Puddle Creative. Our senior producer is Chelsea Davis,  and our associate producer is Jenny Barber. Our executive producers are Paolo Mottola and Joe Crosby.  As always, we love it when you follow this show, when you rate it, and when you write a review  wherever you listened. And remember, some of the best adventures happen when you follow your  wildest idea.