Ashley Rodriguez is a certified nature and forest therapy guide who is passionate about sharing her love of foraging and cooking over an open fire as a way to help people connect with nature and find themselves outside.
Ashley Rodriguez is a certified nature and forest therapy guide who is passionate about sharing her love of foraging and cooking over an open fire as a way to help people connect with nature and find themselves outside. She has worked in world-renowned restaurants, written an award-winning food blog, published two cookbooks, and wrote and hosted the James Beard award-winning web series Kitchen Unnecessary, which is all about cooking outdoors with things you can forage on your own.
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Ashley Rodriguez:
When you do find a mushroom, you're not just paying attention to that mushroom. All of a sudden, you need to look around and notice all of your senses. What trees am I seeing? What plants are growing nearby? What time of year is it? What's the weather like? What does the soil feel like? What birds are singing right now? What flowers are blooming? You're taking notice of all of this and that deep paying attention to all of your senses is actually what nature therapy is.
Shelby Stanger:
Ashley Rodriguez connected with nature through food. She's worked in world-renowned restaurants, written an award-winning food blog called Not Without Salt, and published two cookbooks. On her social media profiles where she has almost 200,000 followers collectively, Ashley shares photos of beautiful produce and seasonal recipes. She also wrote and hosted the James Beard award-winning web series Kitchen Unnecessary, which is all about cooking outdoors with things you can forage on your own. As a longtime culinary professional, she's always understood the importance of using high-quality ingredients in her dishes. Ashley hunts for local mushrooms, stinging nettles, and freshly dug shellfish and then combines them over an open fire. This process grounds her and deepens her relationship with nature. I'm Shelby Stanger and this is Wild Ideas Worth Living, an REI Co-op Studios production.
Ashley Rodriguez, welcome to Wild Ideas Worth Living.
Ashley Rodriguez:
Thank you so much for having me.
Shelby Stanger:
I just wanted to start, well, you have this really interesting career path. You are interested in food, cooking what I call fancy outside like the beautiful dishes that you make outside and foraging and somehow that led you into nature therapy. How did you get into cooking and food and cooking fancy outside?
Ashley Rodriguez:
I mean like so much of life, it's a long and windy path that makes no sense when you're in the midst of it. But I was actually in college studying to become a high school art teacher and part of those studies brought me to Italy where, of course, I fell in love with food. I thought I'd spend my time and my money shopping and doing these great adventures. And all I wanted to do was try all the restaurants in the tiny little town that I was traveling in and just fell in love with the culture that exists around the table. And so I came back and reexamined my life and worked in restaurants, started a food blog, which then really morphed into me telling stories of life around the table. It's always been the food that is the medium to bring us there, but what I'm really interested in what happens at the table. And that's where relationships are built and conversations happen and going back to that Italian way of life, of life stopping so that we can all come together.
So like I said, I had a food blog that was going for over a decade. I have two cookbooks out. And then my brother and I started a project called Kitchen Unnecessary because I started bringing some of this elevated food that I was cooking for friends and family. And in the cookbooks, I started bringing that to our annual camping trip. And I think one of the first things I cooked over the fire was braised chicken thighs in like a creamy mustard sauce. And it started with this fire pit fondue where I threw in some shallots and some cherry tomatoes and lots of fontina cheese. And we all huddled around the fire dipping pretzel rolls into this melted cheese. And my brother who is in film was like, "There's something here. I think this could be really fun."
So it started off as just this fun passion project and we wanted to bring in this element of wild ingredients. And so we connected with experts in mushroom foraging, in hunting, in fishing. And we would go and gather our ingredients and then light a fire and cook a feast that looked like it could belong in a restaurant. But really, we're just gathering what's available to us from the earth.
Shelby Stanger:
How did you get into foraging? Do you remember the first time you did it? Was it because you just wanted mushrooms for your pasta? I'm a little confused by that.
Ashley Rodriguez:
Yeah, that kind of is it. So much of my life decisions have been based in what I'm hungry for. And ironically, I spent much of my life loathing mushrooms, but it was one of those things, I'm a very stubborn person and I'm like, "Okay, everyone talks about how good mushrooms are. I need to get to like them." And I realized that I actually do like the flavor of them. It was a texture thing. So I started by chopping them up really, really fine and putting them in dishes and then more and more starting to learn how I like to prepare them and then getting to enjoy many different wild mushroom varieties. And then when I learned, I don't remember exactly when it is, is that these mushrooms, morel, chanterelles, porcini, all of these flavors that I'm now obsessed with, I can find them in the wild and they're just available.
And so, I connected with people who knew vastly more than I did, some mushroom guides. I took some classes, joined my local mycological society and begged and pleaded some people to take me out with them because I don't know if you know the mushroom foraging world is a very secret. A lot of the mushrooms will grow back in the same spot year after year. And so if you have a spot, you tend to keep that a little secret. One of my first times going out with some guides, they threatened to blindfold me on the entire car ride out to where we were going.
Shelby Stanger:
Well, they like to keep their mushroom spot secret. I get it. Once Ashley started foraging and discovering ingredients that she could use in her cooking, it became a fun treasure hunt. She relished in the thrill of spotting a morel mushroom hiding in a thick layer of pine needles or looking for bubbles in the sand as evidence of clams down below. In Seattle, where Ashley lives, there are opportunities to find all sorts of ingredients outside, even some that you might not know you can eat.
So what was the first thing you foraged for? Was it mushrooms?
Ashley Rodriguez:
Yeah, I think it was mushrooms. Maybe nettles, stinging nettles are such a good entry into foraging. And it's so interesting because I had such a different relationship with stinging nettles when I was a kid. I mean, I stayed away from them, but they are so cool, and they're found almost everywhere. And like many things that you can forage, they're found in disturbed areas, they're found in places where we reside. Which to me, just feels like this way of the plants being like, "Here, take me, use me." And nettles are one of the first things to come up in the spring after we've had a long... In the northwest, we know these long, dreary, gray winters and they provide vitamin C, all these nutrients that we've probably not gotten a lot of in the winter. And it's almost like a natural way for your body to start waking up, which is what spring is all about, right? The earth is starting to wake up. These new things are slowly starting to emerge. And nettles help our own bodies, and our own systems also start that waking up process.
Shelby Stanger:
I love that. So you talked about mushrooms that you love to forage for. You like to forage for stinging nettles. What's one other thing that you just love to forage for that's somewhat accessible for other people to also forage?
Ashley Rodriguez:
Yeah, I love pine needles, spruce needles, fir needles. Most pine, fir, spruce are indeed edible. In the spring, you can get just the tips. It's that bright like citron green. You'll start to see them popping up and standing in contrast on the branches to the dark green that we mostly see throughout the year, but you can even eat them like... In the winter, they have a very different flavor. But in my book, that's coming out next spring, I have a cookie that it's like a pine needle shortbread cookie that I love to serve around the holidays. And the tips of them are, again, filled with so many different vitamins, but they taste so bright and citrusy, and you can just eat them as is. You can put a cup of them and pour honey over it and let that sit and soak up those flavors and oh my gosh, it's incredible. Adds a really kind of a slight sourness to the honey. It's really floral and fragrant, but that is something that's like around here especially, they're everywhere.
Shelby Stanger:
I'm just curious, what is the coolest thing you've ever foraged?
Ashley Rodriguez:
Oh, man. Right off the top of my head, it was probably last season, last fall, and it wasn't a great mushroom year. We've had dry years and we were out looking for some chanterelles and not really finding much of anything. And we went into an old growth forest, and we were on our way back. And we're almost to the car and just off the trail, I saw something out of the corner of my eye, something white and it was growing on a log. And I didn't even call to my friends because I was like, "I'm going to go investigate this." They were up chatting ahead, and I hung back and I went just off the trail.
And the next thing I know, I happened upon the largest bear's head I have ever seen. And bear's head it's like lion's mane, which is it's part of the same family. But it was growing on this fallen tree and branches were coming out of it because this thing just was taking over. And I kid you not, I don't know if I actually got the weight of it in its entirety, but it was about seven pounds and that was pretty incredible.
Shelby Stanger:
I think foraging is cool, but it can be intimidating. For every mushroom you can eat, it seems like there are 10 that can make you seriously sick. Ashley has a strategy that helps her not feel so overwhelmed. Every season, she picks three species and works to become an expert on identifying them. Over the years, her knowledge has added up. Now, when Ashley heads out to the woods to forage, she has a pretty good understanding of what she'll see and whether or not it's edible. When we come back, Ashley shares her tips for cooking outdoors over an open fire and she talks about her journey to become a nature therapist.
Ashley Rodriguez's culinary career is what led her outside to the world of foraging. As an experienced cook, blogger, and cookbook author, Ashley knows her way around a recipe. For her, the beauty of foraging is how it allows us to eat hyper seasonally. Another fun part of cooking outside is preparing food over an open fire, a technique that requires a little learning and a lot of mindfulness.
You also do a lot of cooking outside over an open flame. And for some people, that's a little intimidating just cooking beautiful food, that's fancy camping. A lot of us just like to take those packages and throw water in it because it's easy. Any advice on how to get started to elevate your camping cooking experience?
Ashley Rodriguez:
Yeah, absolutely. And obviously, we're not talking about backpacking here, like I'm not going to be going deep into the woods hiking with my cast iron. But getting started with over the fire cooking, to me, it's a really, really fun challenge that forces you to stay present throughout the entire process. Because unlike in a home kitchen, there's many aspects that you cannot control, and that's what I love about it. It's deepening that connection with the natural world because I have to be paying attention. I'm paying attention to the flame, I'm paying attention to the weather, all of it. But there's not a whole lot that you can't do over a fire that you can do at home.
I cook loaves of sourdough bread over the fire. I've made cobbler over the fire. It's really about readjusting your expectations. Chances are that loaf of bread is going to have a big old char burnt spot on it. It's not going to be as picture perfect as maybe what you can get coming out of the oven. But man, you're still pulling homemade bread off of a fire. People are going to love you. So I think that's also, for me, it's been a really good challenge is to like embrace the elements and embrace what comes. And scrape a little char off, it's fine.
Shelby Stanger:
Do you have like a few go-tos that you love to always make over a fire?
Ashley Rodriguez:
That fire pit fontina fondue that I was talking about is such a crowd-pleaser and so easy. I start with a little bit of butter, olive oil in a hot skillet directly. You can put your cast iron directly onto the coals. You can also set up a grill grate. Sometimes I'll bring my grate from my grill, prop two rocks up over the fire, and set that on there and then use that like my cook stove. But primarily, I'm cooking with the hot coals and then add some shallot, caramelize that for a little bit, throw in some cherry tomatoes and then just throw in cubed chunks of a really good easy melting cheese. And that is always, always a winner. The other thing that is super, super fun to do is cooking directly on the coals. It's a little bit more elevated, a little bit for those who are willing to have a bit of an adventure over the fire.
I cook a hollowed-out pumpkin directly onto the coals. The outside is going to get completely charred, but you try and moderate the heat enough so that the inside is getting nice and cooked. When the inside is starting to feel a little bit tender, I add some garlic right into the pumpkin and a little bit of white wine. And then once that heats up, start melting in some cheese. This is all coming back to melted cheese. There's a thing with me and melted cheese, but this is another kind of fondue-y sort of thing, but it's a crowd pleaser. And so, once you fill up that pumpkin with this melted cheese, then I saute some wild mushrooms and put that on top and then give people some bread to go to town. And then once you're getting to the end, you're getting some of that creamy, sweet pumpkin with the melted cheese and those wild mushrooms. And it is phenomenal.
Shelby Stanger:
This is when my stomach starts grumbling. I would love to go on one of Ashley's camping trips and enjoy some of her cooking. It just sounds amazing. Not every trip in the nature needs to involve a gourmet meal. But for Ashley, hunting for ingredients on the forest floor and cooking over an open flame connects her to the earth.
I'm curious about how food can really help us fuel our adventures outside and elevate our outdoor adventures such as camping or hiking.
Ashley Rodriguez:
Yeah. For me, what has shifted is now using food as a way of helping people to deepen their connection to earth, not as resource but as relationship. And I think that is the essential step that is needed in order for us to care for our planet and ourselves as we are all connected. And so for me, this experience that I had with doing this project with my brother and deepening like getting to know the mushrooms and like mushrooms is such a good example because what they do is they invite you to go deeper, literally. In order to find where the mushrooms are, you have to understand the trees. So you're digging in the earth and yet at the same time, you're looking outside of you, above you, where are the trees? What am I looking for? And suddenly, you're immersed in this web of recognizing the interconnection of it all.
And I just went looking for chanterelles that I could eat with my pasta. And now, suddenly, I'm like, "Wait a second. Why do I feel better mentally, physically, spiritually?" And that led me down this path of nature therapy and eco spiritual guiding and food. And really, this is not new. So many of the Indigenous cultures, this is how they exist. And they are, for so many of us, such incredible teachers and guides in this way of living. And so I started then, okay, how does food and this new relationship with the natural world connect? And like I said, food is, for so many of us, it's the great equalizer. We all need to eat, and this is a way of drawing people, inviting people into nature. We're not just foraging mushrooms, but also go look in your sidewalk cracks, in your garden, in your yard, in public lands around you. There's incredible resources that are there. And I think it just helps to shift that relationship that we aren't just observers of the natural world, but that we are being invited in to participate with it.
Shelby Stanger:
I love it. What does a nature therapist do?
Ashley Rodriguez:
Well, that's a good question. Nature therapy was something that was developed and heavily researched in Japan. And they actually approach it from a very scientific standpoint. They have these forests where they'll have doctors take your vitals before entering in. And then at the end of your time wandering into the woods, they'll take your vitals at the end and notice that stress levels are down like cholesterol level... There's so much science behind it. And actually, some of the chemicals that the trees are using to communicate with one another. When we're out in the woods and we're breathing these chemicals in, they enter into our bodies as NK cells, natural killer cells that then go into our body and help fight off cancer. And there's so much research about the benefit of us being outside on a physiological level.
The approach that I studied with, again, takes it from a bit more of a holistic understanding that yes, there is the physiological benefits. But there's also the benefits to being mindful in nature and practicing some of these meditation techniques. And so what it can look like, it's not a hike, it's not even really a walk, it's just being outside with a guide with a small group of people. And there's these simple invitations. And one invitation could be go and find a tree to sit by and sit there for 20 minutes and see what comes up. And then you are invited back into the group to share what comes up. And it's amazing. It really is amazing.
Shelby Stanger:
That sounds really beautiful. So what are some practical things people can do on their own to connect with nature?
Ashley Rodriguez:
One practice that I love to bring into my daily practice, it does not happen daily, but I do try and do this as often as I can, is the practice of a sit spot. And a sit spot is finding a spot and it can be inside. In the winter, I have a cozy spot on my couch where I can see outside our giant front window. And there's one tree in particular that I just love watching all year long. And I think it's so counter-cultural to our need to always be doing and making and being productive. And there is so much value to just literally sitting and watching and just simply being. And what's cool when you do this practice over the course of a year, say, to then notice how this particular tree or this particular being or whatever you're sitting by changes and shifts all throughout the year. And then you start to also notice that "Oh yeah, I too am part of nature and part of this. And I am shifting and what needs to shift with me as the seasons shift?" So it really is about slowing down and paying attention.
Shelby Stanger:
I love that. I remember like a really profound moment, my senior year in high school. I had a college level class, political science, which meant that we only had class twice a week. And I remember during that time I didn't have class, I was such a busy kid, I was over programmed. But during that time, one day, I just went to the soccer field, and I looked up because we didn't have class and I watched clouds. And I'll never forget that moment. I was like, "This feels incredible." And I didn't know what it was like to slow down and just stare at nature.
Ashley Rodriguez:
I love nature therapy and I love all the ways that you can access this. But really, it's just about getting people to get outside and pay attention. And one thing that I've really been digging into is all the science now that's coming out about wonder and awe and what that does to us. And that is one of the... Like you can't help but feel wonder and awe when you're in a beautiful natural setting. I just feel like good things happen when you get outside. And however, I can help to get people to get excited about getting outside, whether that's you want me to help you get started foraging, you want me to cook an incredible feast for you outside, you want to learn about natural plant dye. All of these things are just ways of getting people outside, and I think that's where really the magic happens.
Shelby Stanger:
I love that Ashley mentioned awe and how beneficial it is for us. Whether we're foraging or hiking or fishing or cooking, nature is one of the places that provides us with a sense of wonder. Experiencing awe can reduce stress, calm our minds, and even inspire us to be more considerate of others. It's no wonder that Ashley's work encourages people to go out and enjoy these perks of being in nature.
Ashley Rodriguez, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I so enjoyed talking with you. And of course, I can't wait to check out your new books. Ashley is coming out with two books next year. One of which is a cookbook called Rooted Kitchen. The book has more than 80 recipes, and it includes tips and techniques for foraging, preserving, and cooking over an open fire. You can pre-order Rooted Kitchen wherever you get your books. It comes out on March 5th, 2024. You should also definitely check out Ashley's web series Kitchen Unnecessary on YouTube or at kitchenunnecessary.com.
If you want to see Ashley's latest culinary adventures, check out her Instagram @ashrod, that's A-S-H-R-O-D. Wild Ideas Worth Living is part of the REI Podcast Network. It's hosted by me, Shelby Stanger, produced by Annie Fassler, Sylvia Thomas, and Sam Peers Nitzberg of Puddle Creative. And our senior producer is Jenny Barber. Our executive producers are Paolo Mottola and Joe Crosby. As always, we love it when you follow the show, rate it, and review it wherever you listen. And remember, some of the best adventures happen when you follow your wildest ideas.