Jesse Huey finished Gambling in the Winds, a climbing route in the Wyoming wilderness, in honor of his friend, Hayden Kennedy.
Jesse Huey is a professional climber who spends much of his time clambering up icy mountains, frozen waterfalls and other alpine landscapes. Climbing allows Jesse to push his own limits as well as build strong friendships with fellow climbers.
The tight-knit climbing community was the inspiration for a climbing route he completed in the Wyoming wilderness to honor his late friend Hayden Kennedy. In this episode, Jesse shares how he became addicted to climbing and how friendship and loss have been a part of his life and career.
Please note that the conversation in this episode covers suicide and survivors’ guilt. If you or someone you know is struggling, know that there’s always someone there to listen. The number for the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is 800-273-TALK (8255).
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Shelby Stanger:
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Shelby Stanger:
So last night I watched a video of you hanging Christmas lights. Talk to me about this activity because, one, I didn't realize how lucrative it could be and two, I always wondered how people get their Christmas lights up so high.
Jesse Huey:
Oh yeah, I had no idea about professional Christmas lightings until I was climbing up in Canmore, Alberta and a friend of mine who was like a really close climbing partner, he was climbing all the time and I was just like, "How do you do it, man?" And he started a Christmas lights business and he kind of told me what he was charging and I was like, "Man, that seems amazing. I want that lifestyle."
Shelby Stanger:
How does Christmas light hanging prepare you for climbing?
Jesse Huey:
Oh God, we used to say that Christmas lights isn't training for Alpine climbing, Alpine climbing is training for Christmas lights. Because you're on these ridges that are snowy on one side and you'd have to... a lot of times you have to wear a rope and you would have the counterbalance weight of your partner that was hanging lights on the other side. And so you'd just be precariously over a 30-foot drop over concrete and you're just like clipping these Christmas lights in and he'd put these wreaths under these roofs that were really inset and so it'd be overhanging and you'd have to really reach under there. And it is hard work and I wouldn't say that it made you a better climber but it made you pretty tough.
Shelby Stanger:
When you look up Jesse Huey on Google, there's an epic climbing video by one of his sponsors, Arc'teryx, that shows Jesse and his best friend and climbing partner, Hayden Kennedy approaching hanging Christmas lights like it's their next big climb. It's a goofy and clever video and it's hilarious just like the two guys. Not only was Christmas light hanging great training for alpine climbing, but for many seasons, it allowed Jesse and Hayden to fund many of their climbing expeditions and lifestyle. Back in January of 2020, I met up with Jesse at the Outdoor Retailer show and we talked about his love of climbing. I also talked to him about his friend Hayden, and how losing him inspired Jesse to finish a climb in the Wyoming wilderness in Hayden’s honor.. I'm Shelby Stanger, and this is Wild Ideas Worth Living. Before we dive into the show, I wanted to let you know in this episode we talk about suicide and survivors’ guilt. I know this is a tough and triggering topic, so please take care of yourself when listening. And if you or someone you know is struggling, know that there's always someone there to listen. The number for the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is 800-273-TALK, That's 800-273-8255.
Shelby Stanger:
So enough about Christmas lighting, you're a legit climber. I was watching videos of you and you climb ice, you climb rocks, you climb mountains, you do Christmas light hanging. How did you get into climbing? And I'm not a climber, so maybe you can describe what sort of climbing you do.
Jesse Huey:
Yeah, well, I grew up in the Northwest, so Seattle, that whole zone has a real deep mountaineering culture, which living in Boulder, Colorado now, I'd say it's very rock-climbing oriented. And so growing up in the mountains there's skiing, there's big mountains that are fun to hike up, there's glaciers and that was my original draw to it, It was just kind of being up in the Alpine. And that kind of was refined down to more technical climbing. So my dad, he was a land surveyor and so he would always take me out on these forestry surveys and we'd be walking through these crazy logging surveys way up in the North cascades. So I grew up in the mountains and oftentimes we'd be in pretty steep places and it just always was super-interesting to me to be up there.
Shelby Stanger:
You climbed in college, right?
Jesse Huey:
I did, I actually was introduced... I had this genuine interest in climbing and mountaineering pre-college, for sure, but I was a rower in college. I was in the University of Washington and-
Shelby Stanger:
Nice, that's a good D1 school.
Jesse Huey:
Yeah, no doubt. And I mean we're... I don't know how much you know about collegiate rowing, but the University of Washington's certainly one of the top three. So that whole University of Washington rowing thing, it was interesting because we had this like unbelievable amount of fitness-
Shelby Stanger:
Rowers are tough.
Jesse Huey:
Yeah, I mean we do practices three times a day and they taught us how to win, in a way that I've never and will never see. And it's like a really innate thing that's kind of in you now. And I feel like you have the skill that relates in life very... how do you put it? It's not really relatable until you're in the mountains or you're doing something where you just can't find that in everyday life, where you're like, "Oh yeah, no, this is time where you dig deep and you're either a winner or loser."
Shelby Stanger:
You rowed all four years of college?
Jesse Huey:
Yeah.
Shelby Stanger:
But you also competed in climbing in college.
Jesse Huey:
I didn't compete. No, I was introduced to climbing from a guy... not introduced, I mean I'd been around it, but the University of Washington has the first outdoor climbing wall in the country. And it's really well set, it's all-natural rocks and concrete and it sits right on the cut, so we'd row by it every day. The cut is the Montlake Cut, which is this famous waterway between two lakes in Seattle. But that climbing wall is really kind of the first and it's a special, special place, there's guidebooks for it. All these like really renowned climbers have spent a lot of time there and so that's where I started climbing.
Shelby Stanger:
So you rowed in college, but climbing became a really big part of your life.
Jesse Huey:
Well, yeah, I mean, when you're done with collegiate rowing at that level, it's really hard to know where to file life honestly. Because you were just part of something that was so intense, so regimented, three times a day, so practiced. And it's a hard segue into just normal life honestly. And I think you see that with rowers, I don't know about other sports, but it was a really natural segue because I had all this routine and regimen in my life and I didn't know where to file it. So rock-climbing, it's just... it's a practice. And so all that fitness and all that time just got put into becoming a better climber.
Shelby Stanger:
Did you ever compete in climbing then?
Jesse Huey:
I have been asked to compete at times. I'm not a gifted rock climber compared to the truly gifted rock climbers. I mean, everything that I can do has been really hard-earned, it's not natural talent. And so in ice climbing, I've been asked to compete quite a bit, I've done it a few times.
Shelby Stanger:
So wait, let's back up, ice climbing is really when you climb up waterfalls or- ?
Jesse Huey:
Yeah, so there's lots of-
Shelby Stanger:
Paint a picture for me.
Jesse Huey:
There's a couple of different versions of it, ice climbing can be up the face of a mountain that's permanent Alpine ice. So like Mount Baker, Mount Rainier, you can climb 60-degree ice, that'd be ice climbing.
Shelby Stanger:
And you're wearing like spikes on your shoes and taking-
Jesse Huey:
Full spikes, spike country.
Shelby Stanger:
What do you... what is the thing called?
Jesse Huey:
Ice axe, they call that an ice axe.
Shelby Stanger:
I'm like banging with my fist right now. I'm really inept guys, sorry. I don't ice climb; I grew up completely on the beach. I would love to though, that's the one sport.
Jesse Huey:
Stay away from it.
Shelby Stanger:
What? It looks so cool, so there's climbing up mountains that are covered in ice and then waterfalls.
Jesse Huey:
Yes, waterfalls. So how do I put this? It's this pretty spectacular, super-ephemeral thing that's going on where a waterfall might come off in nine places. It'll pour over and then there'll be a pool that you could swim in the summer and then it'll pour over and then there'll be a pool you could swim in the summer. And it might do that nine or 10 times and so a really classic ice route would be one that you walk on frozen ice up to this beautiful frozen waterfall, climb it, walk a hundred feet to the next frozen waterfall, climb it. And it's just tiered steps, and it's awesome.
Shelby Stanger:
So how do you make a living as a climber? You've had a really long climbing career, it feels like.
Jesse Huey:
Yeah, I definitely don't make a living as a climber. I mean, I have a little bit of income that comes from it that I... I've always said that my income through climbing basically pays for my habit.
Shelby Stanger:
That's really cool actually. What I really appreciate is that, it's not really cool that you're not getting paid millions of dollars for climbing, I'd really liked that for you. But I think I really respect that you're honest about how you make a living as an adventurer. You've chosen to do something even though you're not getting paid to do it, a lot.
Jesse Huey:
Oh yeah, I mean, if I didn't make a dollar doing what I'm doing, I'd still be doing it.
Shelby Stanger:
So how do you make your money now?
Jesse Huey:
I have a land surveying business in Boulder, Colorado.
Shelby Stanger:
Like your dad.
Jesse Huey:
Yeah, totally. He taught it to me when I was like six.
Shelby Stanger:
Can you describe just real quickly what a land surveyor is for people who don't know?
Jesse Huey:
Well, I do so many different types of surveying. Surveying is basically mapping or protracting of property lines on land that people buy or own. And so when you buy a piece of property, you get a deed and it says on the deed, it's called the legal description that says how to survey the land and it might mean go from this tree to that tree, to that stone and then back to the origin point. And then it's my job to read that and determine how to draw that on the land.
Shelby Stanger:
Climbing is challenging. It requires both physical and mental strength, it can also be pretty dangerous. As someone who's lost many friends to the sport, Jesse Huey has unique perspective on it. So climbing is a discipline, but it's totally unlike other sports because it is massively dangerous in some ways.
Jesse Huey:
Sure, yeah.
Shelby Stanger:
Talk to me about the dangers of the sport and sort of how you've approached that.
Jesse Huey:
Yeah, that's a good question. At first, it was... when you get into climbing in say your 20s and when you get into climbing in general, the danger component, it's like you're really exposed to the danger in the beginning because you just don't know what you don't know. I just plowed through books, I read so many books.
Shelby Stanger:
Like what?
Jesse Huey:
Knot books, how to build an anchor, how to do this, how to do that, how to ice climb, how to rock climb, how to haul a bag up a cliff because we didn't really have the access to videos or the guides or the clinics that are out there now. And it was really kind of a self-taught thing and it was more about mentorship. And so I found some really great mentors. And so that's kind of the first thing I'd say. And when you're in your 20s and you start to climb, you don't really see accidents right away and you don't lose friends. And then 20 years later you, you can remember your mentors having lots of friends pass away or reading stories about these epics tales of partners dying and getting down solo or whatever. And then when you've it for 20-25 years, those things are your reality. So it's certainly something that you kind of grow up with when you grow up with the sport and it's revealed to you slowly, layer by layer and it sucks. That component of it is really sad. And to me, I love it so much that I've accepted that I might lose my life to it and I think that my family gets that. It's certainly something that I don't want to have happen. I mean, I think it'd be a total failure to die in the mountains because it's like my practice, this is what I do. And I've dedicated so much of my life to it that that would be the ultimate fail. A friend of mine says, "You die in the mountains, you lose." At the same time, I'm not going to stop climbing in the mountains because I might die there. I might pick routes that I think are more safe and I've certainly done that as I've gotten older with the loss that I've experienced in my community but-
Shelby Stanger:
It's also such a tight knit community.
Jesse Huey:
Yeah.
Shelby Stanger:
It seems, I can't think of any other sport except for maybe big wave surfing. There's a little bit of loss there. Not a ton, but there is, and that community is so tight.
Jesse Huey:
Yeah, I think that I've had so many people... I have a house in Boulder and I've had so many people stay with me that I've never met based on friendships through mutual friends and every time something bad happens in our community you feel the ripple effect and you might not be close with that person or maybe never met them, but you can really feel it. And to answer your question though, yeah, it is a super-close community and I think that's probably one of the most special things about climbing, honestly, the camaraderie and partnerships.
Shelby Stanger:
Jesse picks his climbs very carefully. He chooses routes where he knows the risk and feels that he can manage them with his skills and his knowledge. But objective hazards, like events that are out of his control, those are just no-go's for Jessie at this point in his career. When we come back, Jesse opens up about the loss of his friend, an extraordinary climber, Hayden Kennedy. We also talk about Jessie's decision to pursue a climb that Hayden didn't get the chance to finish himself and what that was like.
Shelby Stanger:
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Shelby Stanger:
In 2019, Jesse headed into the Wind River Range in Wyoming with a mission. He'd been there four years earlier with his friend Hayden Kennedy and their climbing partners, Whit Magro and Mike Pennings, when Hayden and Whit established the first half of a route called Gambling in the Winds on Mount Hooker. Two years later, Hayden took his own life. Jesse and his climbing buddies knew they had to honor Hayden by finishing what he'd started. I'll let Jesse share the rest of the story. So you have a friend, Hayden who passed away recently. Tell me just a little bit about Hayden, because he was in the video with you hanging Christmas lights and he seems like he was just such a character and so full of life and I'm so sorry.
Jesse Huey:
Hayden was... he's one of my best friends for sure. I had met him when he was 17-years-old. He hadn't even graduated high school yet and easily the most gifted all-around climber I'd ever seen. And a lot of people say in the world, he was just a prolific, he was just incredibly talented and that had really nothing to do with our friendship. He's was just a really cool guy to always hang around and he had a really, really fantastic way of viewing the world. He asked questions no matter what you did or who you were. If you were like an HVAC guy, he'd ask you about like air conditioning units or if you're like a... if you're a school teacher, he'd ask you about your students. And all the while, he was like the Michael Jordan of climbing and so he's a really special human. And he and I had made a trip into the Wind Rivers in 2015 and we had different partners at the time, but we made the trip intentionally to hang out with each other. And my partner and I were just climbing this mountain called Mount Hooker, which is... it's really a notable face because it... most people who listen to this know of El Capitan. So it's not as big as El Capitan, but it's absolutely as committing as an El Capitan. So it's 16-mile, 17-mile hike in to this mountain. And in the 60s, like 1964, this guy, Royal Robbins, Dick McCracken and a guy named Charlie Raymond went in there and they climbed this 2000-foot face 16 miles in. And those guys were-
Shelby Stanger:
Those guys are legends. I mean I know who they are.
Jesse Huey:
They're prolific Yosemite climbers and they called this route the first grade six route outside of Yosemite Valley. So it's the same grade as El Capitan in terms of commitment and scale.
Shelby Stanger:
which basically means hard as F for those of you don't know climbing terms.
Jesse Huey:
Yeah, it means like brown pants when you look at it, it's like you're literally looking up just kind of like, "Oh my God, we're going up that?" It's huge. And so it hasn't really had much free climbing on it at this point. But in 2015 when we went in there, the goal was to free climb on Mount Hooker. And Hayden was exceptional at free climbing, he was unbelievable at it. And he wanted to put a new route up on Mount Hooker, which I wasn't even, I mean, even though he was 11 years younger than me, I wasn't even in the ballpark of qualified at that time, I think. I mean, I've learned a lot since then, it's only been five years but... So yeah, that was the goal is to go free climbing on Mount Hooker.
Shelby Stanger:
I want to hear a little bit more about Hayden. His just death was talked about a lot in the media and it's tragic. It's probably one of the saddest stories in the outdoors I've heard it in a really long time. Do you feel okay telling it? I don't really-
Jesse Huey:
Yeah, I mean it's been almost two and a half years, I've had... And I've written a lot about it and I've talked a bit about it openly. But yeah, he... It's where to start really. So Hayden had climbed... after we finished our Christmas lights seasons, he would climb all over the world. And he won multiple Piolet d'Or, which is basically like the Tour de France of Alpine climbing in the world. So he was doing the most notable climbs and recognized for them in the world multiple times over and he's 25 when this was happening. And in that he lost his main climbing partner, this guy maned, Kyle Dempster and others to name a few guys, this guy Justin Griffin, who lived in Bozeman, Montana. And so he was just getting hit left and right with these tremendous losses in his life and having a really hard time kind of moving through that year after year.
Jesse Huey:
And Hayden was an interesting guy because despite his talent and his pure heart, he was pretty self-conscious about just about girls in his life. He was born with a cleft lip and he expressed to me that he had a hard time finding love because people didn't find him attractive. And then it was like, "Man, dude, screw those girls. If that's how they... if that's the thing, then they don't belong in your life anyway." And so he met this girl Inge Perkins, and he just totally fell head over heels for her. It took a while for that to set but it was kind of like one of his first real true loves. And she really helped him navigate through this epic loss in his life. But then he went skiing one morning, super-early on this massive ski mission in Bozeman, and she and he were caught in an avalanche that he started and it was October, super-early season in Bozeman, it's October 7th. So, I mean, think about getting caught in an avalanche in October, it's just so unlikely, really. So they didn't have avalanche beacons, they didn't have shovels, they didn't have probes. And they got caught in this avalanche and Hayden was buried but he was able to get out. And he searched for hours for her... I mean he searched for hours and hours and it's... I mean he didn't have gloves, digging with his bare hands, just digging for this person that he loves so much and after three hours of searching for her, he knew she was dead and it was kind of the spot where he just, he lost it all for the last time and he ended up taking his life that night.
Shelby Stanger:
That's so, so sad and so heavy. And it had been so confusing for everybody around him.
Jesse Huey:
Yeah, I mean, it was, it was really confusing. It was this guilt that I kind of... I've ran into since. A few years have passed that I've been able to confront and learn that other guys have had it too, that it was just like, how could he not have... the day that I heard that he had died, I flew up to Bozeman and I went to the avalanche site and the plan was to stay a week there, five days, two days. I was just going to sit at the base of that mountain until it made sense to me. And then when I found out he'd committed suicide the sadness just turned to anger and anger to rage. And I hiked out and I was looking at my cell phone the entire time, just I needed to know if he could have called us. And I'd say a third of that journey home he could've made the phone call. And so I definitely internalized a bunch of guilt from that, which is weird. Survivor's guilt is what killed Hayden. And I'm realizing that's not uncommon, survivors guilt's a very, very powerful thing. And I experienced it myself. Honestly, the fact that I have voicemail still saved on my phone that from the three days prior and I feel still to this day really guilty about it, about I remember him calling and I remember being in the middle of something at work and not answering and just being like, "I'll call him that evening," or whatnot. And I think that our minds play tricks on us when stuff like that happens to you. It's like you want to internalize it to be your fault or whatever. And I think I'm largely past that, but yeah, when you have person like that in your life, do something that tragic, it's just really hard to not think of what you could've done.
Shelby Stanger:
You went back and did Gambling in the Winds, was part of that process to sort of face it head on and maybe... I don't know, it sounds like such a heavy thing to have gone through. Did doing that route sort of help you get closer?
Jesse Huey:
Yeah, so that route I'd started... So the 2015 climbing in the Wind Rivers, I did with Hayden and our buddy Whit and my partner Mike Pennings. And so we started this route together that he didn't finish. And I only spent one day with them on that wall in 2015, but he put up this really exceptional rock climb that went halfway up Mount Hooker. And so Hayden always wanted to finish it and finishing it was a huge ordeal, massive ordeal and really time intensive. And so when Hayden died I was searching, I was searching big time for whatever made sense and I think back to those months after his death and I think of... I was ready to camp at the mountain for a month, if I needed, to understand. And this just made sense. It was actually an interesting segue to where it actually came in that I decided to do that route. Hayden and I had climbed here in Colorado the year prior in 2016. This climb that's... if you're in a technical jargon, it's a 5.12 rock climb with a really hard kind of impassable slab at the top. And if you do it just right, you won't fall but it's pretty easy to fall because it's super balance-y. And I went up there and I cut my fingers and I was bleeding underneath my fingertips. And so I couldn't hang onto the rock and I fell off with Hayden there belaying me. And after his passing, three or four days after I got home from Bozeman, I was just like, "I need to go do that route." And so I went and I had this really spiritual experience on it where this really strong updraft started kind of pushing on me from below and the same sharp holds were cutting my fingers the same way, and I started to feel like the stickiness, the moisture between my fingers and the rock and I just really honed into to this updraft. And I got to the top without falling and it provided this weird closure that I didn't expect. And then immediately it just did a lot for me. It was almost like he was there next to me doing it and it felt like I was close with him again in kind of a way to say goodbye in a way.
Shelby Stanger:
This was in 2018?
Jesse Huey:
It was in 2017, this is right after he died.
Shelby Stanger:
2017? Right after he passed away?
Jesse Huey:
Yeah.
Shelby Stanger:
Jesse you're a strong guy. I'm really impressed with you and your vulnerability, I appreciate that. It's not an easy thing to do with someone you just met for five seconds in a podcast room.
Jesse Huey:
No doubt. It's helped, I just wrote this long article, which I don't know if you read it or not, but-
Shelby Stanger:
I did read it, it's really good.
Jesse Huey:
It's getting printed and yeah, it-
Shelby Stanger:
We'll link to it.
Jesse Huey:
So this whole story, I was asked to do for article by the Alpinist, it's a climbing magazine. And so I... It probably took me a hundred hours to write it, it's just such a layered story. I'm familiar with it and I'm open with talking about it now, but it's kind of funny because after this Gambling in the Winds route, we did it, but after we did it, I was kind of asked to talk about it more. And it was... you have the how and the why and the route was kind of the how. And then when we... it's just a thing and it's the thing we did, but the why is the real important question. And I had to really examine the why. Why did we do it? Why? And I didn't really have the answers to it honestly, until I wrote this article and sat with it. I'd hurt my knee in December and I was pretty much on the couch until I had knee surgery two weeks ago. So I sat and I just really had time to think about the why and put words to it. And the editors over there really helped extract by asking the right questions, and I think that it's been... that article might be the worst wage I'll ever make in my life for what I'm going to get paid for it, but I think it might be the most valuable thing that I've done for this process. I mean, it's like equivalent of 700 therapy sessions or something. So yeah, I'm pretty comfortable talking about Hayden and losing him and the reason for doing this route.
Shelby Stanger:
So it sounds like the whole climb was cathartic and Hayden's parents, did they come out?
Jesse Huey:
They did, yeah. So the 2015 route was partially completed. I had this experience in the South Platte before Hayden's memorial where I felt him kind of in that updraft and then the partners, they're my closest partners and Hayden's partner that he had done that route with at his memorial, we made a pact to go back and we were like, this is-
Shelby Stanger:
So that's what you did in 2018?
Jesse Huey:
Well, yeah, that was... at his memorial, that's when we decided we are going to finish the route and then we went back in 2018 to try it. And that effort was just futile. Hayden's parents joined us, a few of Hayden's best friends came in just to be there, but it was just the wrong timing. The weather was terrible, but we had his ashes in camp, in front and center. The mood was just dark and it wasn't time. For me, had we completed it that year, it wouldn't have done it for me, there would have been more grieving I needed to do. And so I think... I would like to think that the mountain wasn't going to let us up that year based on that metric but whatever it was, I mean it was so cold in there and the Wind Rivers are just filled with mosquitoes and there were no mosquitoes. It rained twice a day. It snowed usually in the evenings, which is really apparently not unusual, but for us, that was my third trip in there and that was unusual for sure because I'd never seen snow in the middle of August where to accumulate eight inches at the bottom of the mountain, not at the top.
Shelby Stanger:
So then did you go... have you gone back since?
Jesse Huey:
Well, we finished the route this year.
Shelby Stanger:
Okay, that's what I thought.
Jesse Huey:
Yeah, so 2018 was a fail, we got a little ways up and then we went back this year and-
Shelby Stanger:
Congrats.
Jesse Huey:
Yeah, thanks.
Shelby Stanger:
How did that feel?
Jesse Huey:
That's a good question. Confusing honestly, yeah. It was really being able to see his vision through and to get up the mountain in the style that he had started it. I mean, he was such a phenomenal climber that he would have a hundred feet between protection bolts at times. And so it was really difficult to do what he had done already. And so during the process we're just trying to do it and it was like, "Oh man, this is just an undertaking anyway," but to actually get to the top in the same style, it was really hard. So when we got to the top and we kind of saw it through, it was just really confusing. It was like this all of a sudden is over, which I was happy about, but it wasn't the release that I was looking for. And then after we got back, I realized that it was, it was really one of these things that it kind of opened my life up again. Climbers are interesting, when you get a project, a project could be a sport climb or it could be a big mountain that you want to climb. They become all consuming and they... it's like a Olympic athlete wanting to win the gold medal and when you finish your goal, it's kind of what's next? And to me that was it. I was going to do... It was the only thing on the horizon I was going to do that climb until it was done. It didn't matter how long it took. And so all of a sudden I realized it was over and it really opened me up and kind of released me from this thing, I had this grip on it that I had placed basically on myself and the importance of it. And that was all inherent to just my own thinking around it. But yeah, life just feels a lot lighter now that it's done. I used to wear Hayden's necklace. I've chosen to take it off and it sits above my mirror and it's more like... feels more like a chapter in my life that's closed rather than this thing I'm living day to day. I think when you're around someone who's lost someone very close to them, you can tell where they're at by the tense that they're speaking about the person who passed away, if it's present tense like, "Oh yeah, Hayden loves coffee too," or and so I find myself... I don't speak in the present tense anymore around it and I don't hold it in that way or it's just that potent anymore. So it's been really good that way.
Shelby Stanger:
What would Hayden have said after you finished that climb?
Jesse Huey:
He would use an exclamatory-
Shelby Stanger:
I'm sure he would've, he sounds like a really funny dude.
Jesse Huey:
Yeah, I mean, he would have been to the moon psyched for sure.
Shelby Stanger:
This podcast I started it because I wanted people to feel less stuck in life, whatever it was. And I wanted people to just live more wildly. So what advice would Hayden give about living more wildly?
Jesse Huey:
That's a really cool question that you asked that honestly, because we talked about that a lot, and I had felt very stuck at times and I would talk to him about that and he would say like, "Man," because he didn't do that at all. He wouldn't... he was never stuck. But he always just said, "Well, why do you want to go on a climbing trip with this girlfriend that doesn't really like climbing? Just go surfing, man." And he really brought that to the table and he'd question you. He used to say, "Why don't you learn to play music or read a book or something and not be stuck, honestly, just do something else." The world is just so open to whatever you put your energy into. Yeah, that was one of his biggest gifts, I think that he could really get... he could extract that out of people and encourage that. And so I feel like your identity in this world is oftentimes wrapped into what you do. And I watched him have climbing, stripped from him twice. He totally destroyed his ACL in a stupid bouldering fall in a gym, he fell like two feet and tore his ACL. And then I saw him dislocated shoulder and tear his rotator cuff, a new one really. And he learned to bake bread. He learned to play music. He learned to... I mean it just, it goes on and on. And next time I hung out with him after he destroyed his ACL, he could play Bob Dylan on guitar, so.
Shelby Stanger:
So cool.
Jesse Huey:
Yeah, so it's, I don't know, just being less attached to the identity that you wrap around what you are doing.
Shelby Stanger:
Hayden was not only a phenomenal climber, but he was also a hilarious, kind person and an adventurer who pursued really wild ideas. He sounds like someone I really would have enjoyed talking to. Luckily, talking to Jesse made me feel like I did have a chance to know a little bit more about Hayden. And Jesse well, he's a total stud himself. He's someone who's also kind and full of his own wild ideas. He's spending the next few months climbing some pretty incredible icy terrain in Quebec, Norway, and Nepal. So, of course, I had to ask Jesse some wild questions before we finished our chat. What's the weirdest thing you've seen climbing?
Jesse Huey:
Weirdest thing is... okay, so this last weekend I was in Ouray, and this is Southwestern Colorado and this Australian guy's there and he ends up seeing an ice screw like 10 feet down in this pool of water that someone had dropped. And homeboy just gets buck naked and dives in subfreezing water that's moving really fast and grabs this ice screw. And he's just so psyched that he found this $20 ice screw and he's trying to not have hypothermia afterwards, that was pretty weird.
Shelby Stanger:
Oh, that's so awesome. Where'd you live if you didn't live in Boulder?
Jesse Huey:
Can I live anywhere?
Shelby Stanger:
Anywhere.
Jesse Huey:
For sure, Europe.
Shelby Stanger:
Wow.
Jesse Huey:
Yeah.
Shelby Stanger:
What part?
Jesse Huey:
Somewhere where there was a lot of striking limestone nearby like France, Chamonix, something like that probably.
Shelby Stanger:
Nice, if you had a movie about your life, what would the theme music be?
Jesse Huey:
Oh dear. I really like Tycho, so I'd be kind of running the Tycho theme in the background. Kind of an electronic chill vibe, yeah.
Shelby Stanger:
Is that what you listen to when you climb?
Jesse Huey:
Yeah.
Shelby Stanger:
Do you have any things you say to yourself to kind of keep going?
Jesse Huey:
Oftentimes, I think this is going to be as hard as it ever gets. So tomorrow... if you can get through today, don't worry about, tomorrow is going to be fine.
Shelby Stanger:
That's good advice in life.
Jesse Huey:
Yeah, I think that rowing gave us that. We'd have these rowing tests like, "Set your clocks for 2000 meters and if you don't go under six minutes then you got do it again," or whatnot. And I mean, I dreaded those days so much. You always knew it was going to end though.
Shelby Stanger:
Do you ever get scared of heights?
Jesse Huey:
Totally, yeah.
Shelby Stanger:
What do you do?
Jesse Huey:
I think climbers have a really healthy fear of heights and without a rope on or... it's just the fear of falling really. And I don't have a fear of falling when I've a rope on, ever, but when I have... well, that's not true, but yeah, it's just kind of that understanding the wholality of what you're doing, it's like if you think you're going to get hurt, then you really don't want to fall.
Shelby Stanger:
Best advice to getting into climbing - get to the gym, finger holds.
Jesse Huey:
I would say it depends on where you live. I think that starting in the gym is cool, but it's really not the connection to the outdoors that really is the special part. And so if you really want to get into climbing, go hire a guide for a day of local climbing. Take a trip to Colorado or to the cliffs in New Hampshire or whatever it is, and experience it with a professional that can keep you safe. And those first three minutes, like I said, are the dangerous ones. So if you don't know what you're doing, you're exposed to it. And I think being in the outdoors is the way.
Shelby Stanger:
I totally agree. I actually took an REI woman's rock climbing classes here, it was amazing. I had no idea how hard it was. It was like this... It wasn't even that high up this rock but holy cow, everything is challenged. Your proprioception is challenged, your sense of fear is challenged. You burn so many damn calories climbing, that is why climbers are ripped, not just because it's so hard-
Jesse Huey:
I think it's because we can't carry all the food we need because it's heavy.
Shelby Stanger:
So it's probably true, but you're so hungry climbing too. What is your favorite snack to eat when climbing?
Jesse Huey:
Oh, good question, favorite snack to eat while climbing, I'm really into these Honey Stinger waffles.
Shelby Stanger:
They're right downstairs, samples, tons. So best trick to hanging Christmas lights without getting electrocuted?
Jesse Huey:
Oh man, we always used to say if you don't get electrocuted you're not trying hard enough.
Shelby Stanger:
One more question for you. Advice that you can give to people who want to live more wildly. Clearly you've made a life for yourself, that's really awesome and totally your own.
Jesse Huey:
Yeah, I think just not falling into the thinking that you're on this linear path that you can't get out of because you know, you could walk out of your job right now if you hate it and it's just a mindset of what do you want for yourself and believing in yourself and I think that... and when you really listen to that and you're honest with yourself, you can make choices that are best for you, not for... And I say, not to live out of fear, living in fear's the worst thing ever. Fear of not being able to pay your mortgage or fear of... And not to say that they're not honest and rational fears, but maybe just paying attention to what's an irrational fear and letting that out of your life.
Shelby Stanger:
You're in control of your story and you can change it. Life is short - spend it doing adventures you want to do and with the people you want to spend it with. Thank you so much to Jesse for being open and vulnerable with me in our conversation. I know that your story and Hayden’s story will have an impact on our listeners, and I’m so honored you were willing to share with me. You can head to our show notes in your podcast app or at rei.com/wildideasworthliving to get a copy of The Alpinist Magazine with Jesse’s article, as well as to find the video of him and Hayden hanging Christmas lights. And you can follow his latest adventures on his Instagram @jessehuey. Special thanks to Jesse’s sponsor Arc’teryx and to the Outdoor Retailer show in Denver for hosting us in your podcast room for this interview.Wild Ideas Worth Living is part of the REI podcast network, it's hosted by me Shelby Stanger, written and edited by Annie Fassler and produced by Chelsea Davis. Our executive producers are Paolo Mottola and Joe Crosby, and our presenting sponsor is Subaru. As always, we appreciate when you subscribe, rate and review the show wherever you listen and remember, some of the best adventures often happen when you follow your wildest ideas.