Cheyenne Smith is a multifaceted, adventurer and outdoor guide. She skis, rock climbs, highlines, and leads climbing trips for women of color with a nonprofit called Women's Wilderness. Her guiding style focuses on building community and teaching others to be present and intentional when they're in the wild.
Cheyenne Smith is a multifaceted, adventurer and outdoor guide. She skis, rock climbs, highlines, and leads climbing trips for women of color with a nonprofit called Women's Wilderness. Her guiding style focuses on building community and teaching others to be present and intentional when they're in the wild.
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Shelby Stanger:
I've always thought that being an outdoor guide is one of the best jobs. Growing up, I worked as a surf instructor and I've dabbled in guiding hikes and climbs. There's no feeling like watching someone catch their first wave or scale their first wall. Guiding people on longer outdoor trips takes that feeling even further. It's so rewarding to spend days or even weeks in the wild, disconnecting and teaching people new outdoor skills. For folks going on their first outdoor trip, a good guide can make or break the experience. They have to be able to keep everyone safe, solve problems on the fly, and bring the group together.
Cheyenne Smith:
That's why I'm taking community and connection so seriously with my guiding. It is more than just reaching the top of a mountain or reaching the top of a climb. It's just being out there. For so many people, being out there is scary. And for so many people we're told you're not supposed to be out there. And so to break down those barriers and just allow people to be out there is really important to me.
Shelby Stanger:
Cheyenne Smith is a multifaceted, adventurer and outdoor guide. She skis, rock climbs, highlines, and leads climbing trips for women of color with a nonprofit called Women's Wilderness. Her guiding style focuses on building community and teaching others to be present and intentional when they're in the wild.
When Cheyenne isn't guiding others for work, she's getting outside on her own highlining or rock climbing thousands of feet in the air. This is where she finds connection, purpose, and peace.
I'm Shelby Stanger, and this is Wild Ideas Worth Living, an REI Co-op Studios production brought to you by Capital One.
Cheyenne Smith, welcome to Wild Ideas Worth Living. I'm really excited to talk to you.
Cheyenne Smith:
Thank you. I'm excited to be here.
Shelby Stanger:
So I want to start with little Cheyenne growing up in Denver, Colorado. I read this story about one time you were hiking in the woods behind your house and you find some deer antlers. And that experience really made an impact on you.
Cheyenne Smith:
Yeah. So I grew up just outside of Denver, nearby these bluffs, which are rolling hills in the front range of Colorado. And I remember being super young and sneaking out of the house to go hike around these bluffs 'cause I remember my mom did not like me going out there alone. But I just loved it.
And I would find these deer antlers, and when you're a kid and you find antlers and little pieces of nature, it's so magical and exciting. And that's what kept me going out there. I was like, "Wow, what else can I find today?" I found an underground tornado shelter, under grass. And I remember being by myself, no friends with me, I just like have these deer antlers in my hand. So scared, didn't know what could be in this thing. I'm like, "Am I going to find a bunch of dead bodies in here?"
And I opened it and it was empty and I just started storing all of my antlers and little pieces of nature. And it was just right outside my house. And all growing up, that was my place that I would store my little nature treasures and it became my treasure box. And it's still out there to this day. I have yet to go back and find it. I think it's been overgrown by a bunch of grass. But yeah, it was a really cool treasure box to represent like, oh wow, I am an explorer and I've always been that way ever since I was little.
Shelby Stanger:
Yeah, you must have felt like Indiana Jones, or like whatever we watched when we were little kids. I mean, I did that in my backyard. How did this moment hook you in to the point where you have pursued outdoor exploration and education as your career today?
Cheyenne Smith:
I think going into the bluffs was huge for me as a kid, because it was my time to be free. That was my place I could have fun and be a kid and experience wonder. And it's such a symbolic place for that time of my life. And I remember the shelter, it got full of things and I looked down into it and realized, "This is it. This is what I want to do. This is what I love." And ever since that moment, I was so young, 9, 10, 11 years old going into the bluffs. And ever since then, I have been pursuing adventure in nature and the outdoors.
Shelby Stanger:
Cheyenne has followed through on pursuing that passion for the outdoors. When she was younger, she spent much of her time hiking and skiing, and in college she started rock climbing outside. She was always taking her friends along with her, teaching them skills on each trip, and quickly realized that guiding could be the perfect career path.
After Cheyenne graduated, she decided to pursue outdoor certifications and received a scholarship for a Leaders of Color course at NOLS. If you haven't heard of NOLS, it's an outdoor leadership school that teaches technical skills, wilderness medicine, environmental ethics, and more. The scholarship was a major turning point in her life.
Cheyenne Smith:
What it's like to be outside with a group that's all people of color, I've never experienced that in my life. So when I got to experience that, I was like, "Wow, I've been the only one, and there's other people out here doing this thing. People of color, we just need to find each other. And we found each other on that course, and it was so powerful for me.
I grew up in a predominantly white area, and so when I was going on these adventures as a kid, when I was in high school and even in college, I truly was the only person of color, the only woman of color in our groups. And things would come up or microaggressions come up, and I would just kind of hide in my shell and not really say anything. And I never felt like people fully understood what my experience was like as a woman of color in the outdoors. And for me, that manifested as getting quieter and just keep on moving by myself, doing my thing, being in solitude in nature, if things would come up.
Shelby Stanger:
And you're not a quiet person.
Cheyenne Smith:
And I'm not a quiet person. And that's exactly how it would manifest, is I would just kind of hide into my shell 'cause I really love this thing of being in the outdoors. And then I got older and I realized, "Wow, there's no one that looks like me out here." And so when I got this opportunity with NOLS to be with other people of color outside for the first time in my life, in my 20s, which is crazy, I had that light bulb moment of, I want to be outside with more people of color. And I want other people to experience this, the healing effects of being outside in nature. And that's what I want my guiding career to be.
Shelby Stanger:
When Cheyenne returned from her NOLS course, she earned scholarships to become a wilderness first responder and an American Mountain Guides Association climbing guide. Eventually, she learned about Women's Wilderness, a nonprofit that takes women, girls, and non-binary people hiking, backpacking, climbing, and more. Today, Cheyenne works as a guide for Women's Wilderness full time. I am curious to hear how being a guide has been so transformative to the people you teach.
Cheyenne Smith:
Yeah. I think a big part of it is creating more community for myself. I've become friends with a lot of people that I've guided too. I'm not above anyone just because guiding someone, I'm right there with the people that I'm guiding too. When I started this guiding, it was really out of a need for, I just want to see more people that look like me out here. And it's happening. The more I've been doing these trips, I'm seeing people that have never even been on a trail in Colorado, and one year, two years later, they're also pursuing their guiding certifications, which is super cool.
The big thing is I felt so alone in my lived experience as a woman of color for so long, and I think that's why I'm taking community and connection so seriously with my guiding. Because it is more than just reaching the top of a mountain or reaching the top of a climb, or pushing and doing the gnarliest thing. It's just being out there.
And for so many people, being out there is scary. And for so many people we're told, "You're not supposed to be out there. That's white people stuff." To break down those barriers and just allow people to be out there is really important to me. Allowing people to be able to choose that for themselves is really cool opportunity.
Shelby Stanger:
I'm in this phase of life where I like picnicking outside, which sounds like kind of not that cool and adventurous. But I have a niece and she likes to eat, and this is how I can get her to get outside. If I have really yummy snacks and a really delicious meal, she's a foodie, she will go outside to kind of remote spots, if I feed her.
Cheyenne Smith:
Yeah. There's just so many ways. It's crazy. Or also, even just in outdoor media told that being outside looks certain ways. Representation is a whole other piece of it. I also never saw myself represented in the magazines, in the articles, in the videos, and podcasts, media. And that is changing too, which is super cool. And when you see that and you see other people who maybe have a similar shared experience as you, you're like, "Maybe I could do that too." And for a lot of us, we're kind of trailblazing that path.
Shelby Stanger:
Do you have a specific experience guiding a trip of someone who came in, and maybe they were a little bit sour, and then by the end of the trip they changed?
Cheyenne Smith:
Oh, yeah. I mean, I've had so many people come through that were transformed by a trip, which is why I keep doing it. But one scenario that stands out is, I was guiding a youth course. And there was a young girl who just had a lot of behavioral issues, and also has never done any outdoor recreation in her entire life. And her social worker actually put her into this course. And they all got to the climbing portion and the instructors were just telling me, "This girl is so tough to work with and we really need to keep an eye out on her." And I also do want to note, she was one of the only kids of color in this group of kids.
I had this moment of, "She's just a kid, we can figure this out with her." And it just took a lot of extra attention and creating the balance of safety. And also, we're all kids here, let's have fun. And if there was ever downtime, going and talking to this kid and creating conversation about their life and what excites them. Because when you're a kid, you always can find something that excites you.
And the whole climbing course happened. I was like, "Okay." They had a good time, which was my goal. They struggled a little bit, but compared to what these backpacking instructors told me from the previous portion of the trip, it seemed like they were doing a lot better.
I walk away from the climbing course and I'm at the office and there's a water bottle, a frozen water bottle with a bunch of wildflowers in there. And the backpacking instructor said, "She picked all of these wildflowers, put them in her Nalgene, froze them for you, and wanted to give it to you as a gift."
Shelby Stanger:
That's really sweet.
Cheyenne Smith:
Yeah. And this is also a kid who was very angry. And picking a bunch of wildflowers and putting them into a Nalgene, it's a kid you wouldn't think that they would do something like that. And when these backpacking instructors gave this gift to me, I was like, "Wow, maybe going the extra mile to check in with them made that difference." And the fact that they took time away from the group to thank me for that was confirmation of, "Okay, I think I'm doing something right here."
Shelby Stanger:
I also imagine as a little girl, I would've worshiped you. You're so cool, you're fun, you're a fricking stud rock climber. And to this little girl, you looked like her. That's huge.
Cheyenne Smith:
Yeah.
Shelby Stanger:
Also, that's really sweet that she froze flowers. That's awesome.
Cheyenne Smith:
It was just the sweetest, most creative little back country gift.
Shelby Stanger:
Stories like this are fuel for Cheyenne. The opportunity to impact women of color and show them they belong in the outdoors is exactly why she started guiding. When we come back, Cheyenne talks about her relationship with the outdoors, how she started highlining, and her approach to guiding in 2024.
Cheyenne Smith has successfully made adventuring her full-time career. In the past few years, she started highlining. If you're unfamiliar with the sport, I describe it as slacklining on steroids. For those who don't know, slacklining is walking on a wide tightrope, a few feet above the ground. Highliners take that to the extreme, balancing on lines between giant rock formations or over canyons, hundreds and sometimes even thousands of feet in the air. When Cheyenne is working as a climbing guide, she has to think about all of her responsibilities and the logistics of the trip. But out on the highline, all of that fades away and she feels focused and peaceful.
Cheyenne Smith:
I love heights. I love climbing high, I love flying on airplanes. I love being up high and seeing the world from that perspective. And this is before I knew highlining was a thing, but
Shelby Stanger:
Maybe you were a bird in your last life or something.
Cheyenne Smith:
I must be, because there's something about it. There's something about being up high. But I was slacklining a lot during quarantine and I knew of highlining. I had no idea there was a highline community in Boulder. I just thought, "This is this thing that famous people do in Moab. And I'll never get the chance to do that."
And I was slacklining one day at North Boulder Park and this girl came up to me and I didn't know who she was. And she was like, "Have you ever highlined before?", because she saw me slacklining. And by that point I was pretty decent at it. I was slacklining most days in quarantine and practicing a lot. And I was like, "No. People do that here?" And she was like, "Yeah, come out with us tomorrow. We're setting up a highline. Come. You're ready."
And I didn't know who she was, but I got her number and I went out the next day with her. And we were in Boulder Canyon and I recognized the area 'cause I've climbed there a lot. And we hiked past all of the climbing areas to the top and they started rigging the highline. And I was just sitting there like, "I don't know how to help. I feel so scared right now. This is the craziest thing. I can't believe this is happening." And I was just with this girl that I've never met before and this guy that she invited that I've never met before, and trusted them to set up this highline. Crazy.
Shelby Stanger:
So, what was it like to walk your first highline?
Cheyenne Smith:
Absolutely terrifying. I wanted to poop my pants. The wind blew and I was like, "I am going to die." I was so gripped. I got off of the highline. I was like, "That was..." I'm getting chills just thinking about it right now. I remember the feeling vividly, of feeling absolutely just gripped and frozen and terrified. So yeah, that was my first highline.
Shelby Stanger:
But you didn't die. You're here today.
Cheyenne Smith:
I know. I didn't die. And then I ended up getting on it again later that day 'cause I saw them. They got on it and they were just walking and they looked so stable and meditative. And it looked so amazing. And I was just watching them like, "How do they do that?" And I got on it again and I was able to sit on top of the line this time. Because I was just trying to channel, "You're on a slackline in the park, you're on a slackline in the park. Pretend you're not this high up right now." And when I was able to channel that, I could just sit on it like I was on a slackline and that's when it clicked. I was like, "Oh, this is just slacklining. That's all it is, we're just high up."
Shelby Stanger:
Yeah, but the line has also way more slack.
Cheyenne Smith:
It does. It is. It's longer, it's not as stable, but the actual principle of what you're doing is just slacklining. And when I realized that, I was like, "Oh, maybe I could do this."
Shelby Stanger:
And then falling has got to be sketchy as.
Cheyenne Smith:
Yeah. And so, that was also really tough for me to do, is my first whip. And whipping is when you fall off the highline and you're caught by the rope. And when I did that and I was caught, I was like, "Okay, I'm safe. This is a safe system." And I didn't know all the systems at play during this time. And that's naive to say, looking back. And I wish I knew, but the more I learn about the systems and rigging and all of the different forces and redundancy that's happening, it is so safe. The biggest misconception about high lining is that it's unsafe. And it's one of the safer outdoor activities, which so many people, eyes wide open, like what? But it's a safe sport, if you do it right.
Shelby Stanger:
What was the biggest payoff when you finally did it?
Cheyenne Smith:
I think just the feeling of, "Oh, I'm doing this thing I truly thought was impossible." And that allowed me to realize that you can really do anything you put your mind up to. Because I've always thought high lining was absolutely impossible. I always grew up telling everyone, "I have the worst balance. I'm such a klutz. I trip over everything. I can't do it." And now whenever people tell me, "Oh, I could never do that. I have no balance. I have no balance.", I'm like, "I don't believe you. You can train balance." It's wild. If you just put the time and the energy into it, you can do it. And all these self-limiting beliefs hold us back from doing these things. So, that was the biggest lesson I learned.
Shelby Stanger:
So, what's your high lining look like today? How often do you go and where do you go?
Cheyenne Smith:
Yeah. Just like my guiding, I would say my high lining life is really community oriented. The highline community is truly the best thing that's ever happened to me. I go to gatherings and all the highliners from all over the U.S. meet up. I help co-organize women's gatherings for the highline community. We just had one this last weekend in Flagstaff, which was super fun.
And there's different ways you can go with high lining. There's freestyle, which is tricks. I don't know if you've ever seen videos of people crazy tricks on a highline, but that's called freestyle highlining. And then there's longlining, which a lot of people pursue, which I think I'm on that path of longer lines. And those are walking lines that are over a hundred meters. It's really circus adjacent. There's a lot of juggling, there's a lot of flow arts, and the community is a huge part of why I still highline.
Shelby Stanger:
Building community is a running theme in Cheyenne's life. From the highline events she helps organize to her work as an outdoor guide. Over the years, she's adopted some strategies so that people can feel safe, collaborate, and have fun on the trail. When Cheyenne is leading a trip, one of the first things she does is bring the group together to create community agreements.
Cheyenne Smith:
There's so many little modes and methods of how I set intentions, but I always create community agreements. And so, I like to do a five-finger community agreement thing where it's four things of what you want to get from the group, and your thumb is what you want to give to the group. And it's really cool because then people can really think about what their strengths are and how they can bring their strengths to the group.
For example, four things I want to get from the group are I want to get respect. I want to get understanding, because I like to go to bed early and I want people to respect that. I know a lot of people when it gets on things I could give, they're like, "I can give jokes. I am funny. I know I'm funny." And then they end up cracking up the whole group the whole time.
Shelby Stanger:
I love that. I'm going to use that. That's great. I'm actually speaking to a group of high schoolers next week and I was like, "God, that would be a really good activity for them." Why should people hire a guide?
Cheyenne Smith:
Ooh, I love this question. There are ways you can move through the wilderness that keep everything in mind, which a guide will hold. And that includes the land, the people, the systems, the etiquette, all of these different moving pieces that when you're usually going out recreationally, you don't think about as much. And I think it's really important to hire a guide so you can learn about all of these different pieces. Not only is it important for yourself and your own safety, but also important for the preservation of the land and the earth and future generations. So I highly recommend hiring a guide, if you're trying to get into a new outdoor sport or even just explore somewhere you want to explore, and don't necessarily feel comfortable to go out there by yourself. I think a guide is 100% the best decision to do.
Shelby Stanger:
What does it take to become a guide?
Cheyenne Smith:
I think the biggest thing is a love for doing it. Guiding is hard. It's exhausting, it's tiring, and you have to have the passion for it. I think so many guides get burnt out because they like the idea of it, but not the actual act of it. And it's tiring, so you need to love it. That's the biggest thing.
Shelby Stanger:
Yeah, I think a lot of people love surfing, so they think they're going to like teaching surfing, but they really just love surfing. They don't like pushing other people into waves. So I see a lot of surf instructors, not with the surf school I was at, but I just see a lot of them out front of my house teaching surf lessons. And they're just catching waves themselves. I'm like, "Dude, your instructor is floating in the ocean. Go get them."
Cheyenne Smith:
It's so true. I think a lot of people get into guiding because they love their sport and then they realize guiding's actually sucking away their love, their personal love for the thing. And I see a lot of people I guide with get burnt out on their personal endeavors with the sport because they're just working, working, working. And that's why I really try to also separate my guiding work from my personal climbing.
I feel the most alive when I am present in whatever I'm doing. And so when I am able to be fully locked in something like climbing or highlining, it allows me to get into that presence so much faster and so much easier than it is in just my day-to-day. And that's why I keep doing it, 'cause I love that feeling of presence. And I love feeling one with nature and the wind and the open space and the rock and the animals and the birds. I love feeling all of that around me and feeling it fully.
Shelby Stanger:
You don't need to go on a big adventure or walk a tightrope in the sky just to understand what Cheyenne says about the presence she feels outdoors. Even something as simple as walking a local trail can make us feel like our best selves. If you want to keep up with Cheyenne Smith, you can find her on Instagram @chey.smith, that's C-H-E-Y . S-M-I-T-H.
If you like this episode, I highly recommend our interview with highliner Faith Dickey. Faith is a friend and mentor to Cheyenne and one of the most well-known highliners in the world. We'll link to it in the show notes.
Wild Ideas Worth Living is part of the REI Podcast Network. It's hosted by me, Shelby Stanger, produced by Annie Fassler, Sylvia Thomas, and Sam Peers Nitzberg of Puddle Creative. Our senior producers are Jenny Barber and Hanna Boyd. Our executive producers are Paolo Mottola and Joe Crosby.
As always, we love it when you follow the show. Take time to rate it and write a review wherever you listen. And remember, some of the best adventures happen when you follow your wildest ideas.