Diana Helmuth, author of How to Suffer Outside: A Beginner's Guide to Hiking and Backpacking, discusses the ins and outs of how to start, what to expect, and how there's no need to be an expert to get outside.
When we’re fantasizing about our next outdoor trip, we often conveniently forget about the less-than-glamorous parts. Backpacker Diana Helmuth talks about the realities of getting on the trail in her hilarious book “How to Suffer Outside: A Beginner's Guide to Hiking and Backpacking”.
Diana is skilled at making even the most mundane subjects funny, interesting and informative for everyone. In this episode, she talks about how sometimes leggings on the trail aren't the greatest idea (hello, mosquitoes!), the best way to plan your route, her tips on going to the bathroom outside and much more.
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Diana Helmuth:
I don't know if you felt this, if you're having a really bad day and you're just like, man, everybody on the planet sucks. I'm going to go talk to the trees. And the trees hilariously are like, LOL, okay. Like you can come, but we're not going to be nice by the way. That's my favorite part about nature is that she doesn't love you and accept you for who you are. She just doesn't give a shit about you so you're forced to give a shit about yourself.
Shelby Stanger:
That's Diana Helmuth. She's a backpacker and the hilarious author of the book, How To Suffer Outside: A Beginner's Guide To Hiking And Backpacking. I love this book be because let's face it, there's some things about hiking and backpacking that often go overlooked. When we're fantasizing about our next outdoor trip, we conveniently forget about the less than glamorous parts. Things like getting eaten alive by mosquitoes, horrible blisters that tear up our feet or the discomfort of chaffing. Diana's book talks about the realities of backpacking in a funny, refreshing way. I was dying laughing when I read it. A note. This episode does have some explicit language, including references to private parts. So you might want to save this one for when the kids are not around. I'm Shelby Stanger, and this is Wild Ideas Worth Living.
Shelby Stanger:
Diana hails from the Bay Area where she spent her teenage years hiking and backpacking. She's now a full-time writer and she's been featured in online publications like Longreads and The Bold Italic. She co-wrote the book, 50 Places To Practice Yoga Before You Die and contributed to the anthology, The End Of The Golden Gate. Diana's latest work, How To Suffer Outside marks a milestone for her career as a writer. It's her first full length book and it was published with Mountaineers Press last year.
Shelby Stanger:
Diana Helmuth, welcome to Wild Ideas Worth Living.
Diana Helmuth:
Thank you for having me.
Shelby Stanger:
You wrote this great book, How To Suffer Outside: A Beginner's Guide To Hiking And Backpacking. And there's so many things I love about this book, because it's kind of inappropriate and funny, but it's like so accessible and I've never backpacked before.
Diana Helmuth:
Thank you for saying that. Inappropriate and accessible was exactly the vibe I was going for so I'm really glad that you captured that.
Shelby Stanger:
Okay. So tell me like how did this come to be?
Diana Helmuth:
So the idea for the book came about 10 or 12 years ago, I was hiking in the Paria canyon, which is a slot canyon in Arizona and there's a river running through it. So you're hiking in water the whole time. And my friend, Jeanie, who is a character, it is a how to book, but there's a little bit of anecdote sprinkled in and Jeanie is a recurring character. We were hiking through the canyon and she, poor thing, had worn these ... They were supposed to be water shoes, but after about two days, her feet were just completely covered in blisters. I mean it looked like she had a pox. She was in so much pain and putting on socks at that point didn't help, tape wasn't staying on because her feet were wet. And anyway, to make a long story short, something happened where she's in this agony. And then I think I tripped and fell like into quicksand, I just ate it really hard. And we thought we were lost also because we ran into a Marine who told us we were lost and ...
Shelby Stanger:
You ran into a Marine on the trail and he's like, "Girls you're lost."
Diana Helmuth:
Basically, yeah. And by the way, he was wrong, we found out later, but we just believed him because when you're 19 and a man who's a Marine comes up to you and says something, you're like, okay, I'll just take ...
Shelby Stanger:
I mean, when you're 40, I would believe a Marine too.
Diana Helmuth:
So we both just kind of collapsed and started laughing that kind of insane laugh that happens after you have just gotten yourself into such deep shit. And we turned to each other and I forget who said it first, but somebody said, "We should write a book about how to go backpacking. Not about this, but how to go backpacking because we're obviously such experts. I mean the world would benefit from our professionalism and expertise." And then a few years ago, I had stopped backpacking and I wanted to start again and that story occurred to me. Not because I thought I was so funny and I wanted to share that with the world. What it really was, was this permission slip.
Diana Helmuth:
Like I wanted to write the permission slip that I wish I had read when I was younger, that by the way, all this screwing up, you're doing, it's perfectly fine. In fact it's extremely normal. And I feel like we don't see enough of that. We don't see enough screw ups, we don't see enough suffering, we don't see enough of the honest pain behind the Instagram photo of the topless girl with her arms in the air. I mean like, it's a beautiful feeling, it's great. But that's like 10% of backpacking. The other 90% is brutality and people do not talk about it. And anyway, that's a really long answer to your question, but that's kind of what inspired the idea for the book.
Shelby Stanger:
The fact that you said permission slip is so beautiful because we don't give ourselves permission to be messy and fail and like go backpacking. I've tried to go backpacking. And I don't like the food situation. I don't like dirty feet at the end of the day. Like I like showering, I like water.
Diana Helmuth:
Yeah.
Shelby Stanger:
And so it's really challenging for me. You introduce yourself on your book as like immediately as someone not to listen to.
Diana Helmuth:
I mean yeah, because ...
Shelby Stanger:
Which is so funny because now I actually take you more seriously.
Diana Helmuth:
Well, thanks, I think.
Shelby Stanger:
You said, more specifically, "This book by a non-professional backpacker is for aspiring non-professional backpackers." That's great.
Diana Helmuth:
Exactly. Yeah. That's exactly what it ... And I mean, because I've met people who, wilderness guides and when you're backpacking, you meet what I like to call "real backpackers" and I find them very intimidating. I respect the shit out of them. They scare me a little. They're very impressive. And I've just never really related to that person even though I have done a lot of backpacking. And then of course the more I go out and on social media too, the more I'm realizing, wait, wait, wait. I think we are actually the majority is the people who feel like they have no idea what they're doing. So wait a minute. Is there actually a market here possibly?
Shelby Stanger:
Diana has more extensive knowledge and experience than a lot of backpackers I know. So it's interesting that she doesn't consider herself an expert. It just goes to show that this idea we have of "experts" is kind of arbitrary. To me, Diana is an absolute authority on backpacking. She's been doing it on and off for over 15 years. So you have this background though with backpacking. I mean, you've experienced the outdoors quite a bit. So maybe tell me a little bit about how you came to the outdoors, because it started as a kid.
Diana Helmuth:
Yes. And I'm glad you asked this because this is something I do get excited to talk about. And I think it's something when I tell people this, they're like, "Wait, I'm sorry you did what in high school?" So I grew up in a very wealthy area. I was like a poor kid in a wealthy area. I grew up in Marin County, which is just north of San Francisco. And has a lot of well deserved jokes about it. But anyway, there was a program there that was pretty cool. It was called Team, I believe it is still active. But the program put on by the school district takes 24 junior year high school kids and puts them in a room with like two teachers, and they do this alternative high school year. And what's involved is your regular classes like math and social studies and English. But you also do community service. Like on Tuesday, you don't go to school. You just like go to a job which is a volunteer service or an internship.
Diana Helmuth:
And the other thing you do is three backpacking trips. And for most of these kids, it's the first time they've ever been backpacking and they're serious trips. We went to the Sierra Nevada mountains in October. We to Joshua Tree in April. And then my year, we went to Mount Shasta in May. But my understanding is they don't do it anymore because the snow situation on Shasta is no longer reliable, which is sad but true. So my mom was a very active person growing up. She always took me hiking. But Team was where I really learned how to backpack, which is the difference between hiking and backpacking. You're doing the same thing during the day. But at night, the difference is you don't go home to a shower, a bed and a pizza. You sleep on the ground. You maybe get to put your feet in water if you planned well. And then you eat something freeze dried and try not to like destroy your camp mate with your impending gas is pretty much what happens. It's like not great, but it's great.
Diana Helmuth:
So Team is where I got that start and the reason I love Team and I want to talk about it all the time is because it's free. It sounds like some kind of alternative Montessori school, but it's actually free, which is amazing. I think kids are pretty hungry for the lessons of self sufficiency and self-awareness that backpacking provides. There's not a lot of room for bullshit in backpacking. And I think that's very, very helpful when you're a teenager.
Shelby Stanger:
I love that. So what is it about hiking and backpacking as a kid? I mean, you talked a little bit about it. There's no bullshit in hiking and backpacking, but like what about it drew you in and drew you in as an adult as well?
Diana Helmuth:
I don't think of myself as a depressed person, but I want to say some kind of melancholy or like a depressive phase. I think hiking is therapy is sort of a trend a lot of people have. I don't know if you felt this, if you're having a really bad day and you're just like, I just need to go surfing. I need to go be with the water. It's a similar type thing when you're just like, man, everybody on the planet sucks. I'm going to go talk to the trees. And the trees hilariously are like, LOL, okay. Like you can come, but we're not going to be nice by the way. That's my favorite part about nature is that she doesn't love you and accept you for who you are. She just doesn't give a shit about you so you're forced to give a shit about yourself.
Shelby Stanger:
What do you love about backpacking and hiking?
Diana Helmuth:
I think, I mean, personally, I love the challenge of it, both the mind and the body. I love what a celebration it is of your body, that your body can do this. I'm not really the body that you typically associate with hardcore backpacking. Like I'm on the chubbier side, I'm really tall. I'm like a size 14, I'm a big girl and I like to do it anyway. And at first I felt a little nervous about that, but the more I go out year after year after year, the more bigger bodies I do see, which I think is great. So I like that backpacking is, it's a radical encounter with your body, positive and negative. Like look, you can do this or like whoa, you better not do that. Or you're going to do this slower than you thought you were going to do. And by the way, it's all okay. Because if you want, you can just sit on that rock and cry about it or you can just keep going.
Diana Helmuth:
So it's very much like a reality check. It's very pagan. There's this intimacy with the divinity of nature and a reality check for that divinity too, because nature's frequently kicking your ass or biting you or burning you or something, but still it feels like pushing you to do something amazing.
Shelby Stanger:
Do you have a story of like a magical time you went backpacking where it was so beautiful and awesome and you'll never forget that moment?
Diana Helmuth:
Yeah, so many. I mean, that's why we keep going back. It's like it sucks. It sucks. It sucks. It sucks. And then you see God and then you go home and you're like, I have to go do that again. So that's kind of backpacking.
Shelby Stanger:
What does that look like for you though?
Diana Helmuth:
What I didn't want to do is talk about the one in the book, but that really is the best one.
Shelby Stanger:
You can, it's beautiful.
Diana Helmuth:
I was 16 and it was at the end of my first backpacking trip in the Sierra Nevada mountains. And we had been out for 14 days, which is an insane amount of time. And at the end of it, I was like a different person. You go through a phase of culture shock, I think, when you backpack for a little bit of an extended period of time. And I was like unhappy, but I didn't want to go home. And I was sitting in front of, I think it was Lake Robinson in Yosemite or near the Yosemite border. And there was just this beautiful sparkling lake. And I was just sitting there kind of having this quiet panic attack. Like, I don't know who I am anymore. I don't want to go home. I know I can't stay here. And one of the trip leaders came up to me and she could kind of tell it was like having a moment and she goes, "You okay?"
Diana Helmuth:
And I said, "I don't feel right." I don't know how to articulate what I'm feeling. I didn't say that, but I think I said something like that and she just sort of nodded to me. And she said, "Do you remember the first night when we walked in here?" We had hiked, it was around Lake Robinson. You're just surrounded by cliffs of granite. It's like, you're on an alien planet. Everything is just this icy, cool, sharp and yet soft. It's a totally surreal environment. And we were sitting on this huge cliff and then the Moon started rising and it was full. And it was like, I mean, it was like a joke. It was like the fattest movie Moon you've ever seen. It was a Greek myth come to life.
Diana Helmuth:
And we all just sort of stopped talking and stared at it with our mouths open. And you could just watch the whole world transform into this silver cold light. And it was the most beautiful thing I had ever seen in my life. And she said, "Do you remember that??" And I said, "Yeah, I do." And she said, "Well, the moon is going to rise over that rock every night, whether or not you're here." And I don't know why, but that made me feel better. And it still makes me feel good to think about the Moon rising over that rock. And I guess that's how tree-huggers are born. I don't know. But anyway, that was probably one of the most beautiful things that has happened to me.
Shelby Stanger:
Those magical moments out in nature can have a deep, profound effect on us. For Diana, watching that Moon rise influenced her values and her passions. It's a big part of why she wrote a book with the mission of getting others outside. When we come back, Diana talks more about what's in the book and she shares advice about food, gear and going after her wild idea.
Shelby Stanger:
Diana has a way of making even the most educational topics entertaining. Mundane stuff like maps, packing lists, and discovering trails become comedy bits. In her book, she talks about the danger of believing everything you read on the internet. Here's an excerpt from the book.
Diana Helmuth:
"I spend hours online while planning a route, researching seasonal conditions and looking at photos and reviews from people who have already been there. Even if I have a book about it. I hunt for this information like my life depends on it because it kind of feels like it does. Then I get to the trail head. The clear path I read about requires bushwhacking through poison oak. The little stream is a torrential impassable river. I learned that HikerDude247's definition of moderate difficulty is much, much more generous than my own. Sometimes my favorite, the trail is missing all together. By some miracle, everything actually goes as the review said it would. And then somebody steps on a snake."
Shelby Stanger:
Diana's writing is dotted with illustrations by artist, Latasha Dunston, whose cartoons capture the essence of the book and what it's really like to go outside. Why did you decide to take this funny, self-deprecating, but like, there's actually like legit advice in here. Like I learned about what kind of backpack I need. I learned a lot about what to put in your first aid kit and you explained it in a way that I just have never heard before. So why did you take this tone? And does it come naturally? Like how did you cultivate it?
Diana Helmuth:
I mean, yeah. I'm just like naturally iridescently funny and ... No, I'm kidding. I have like lots of editors and a really good writing group and everything, but I wanted to write the book that I wish someone had given me when I was sort of rediscovering backpack in my late 20s, because I took a little bit of a break between my early 20s and my late 20s. I didn't go on any trips for like six or seven years. And then when I got back into it, I had forgotten some things. And also frankly, technology had changed already. I mean like everyone was still using bear canisters, but like nobody was using an MSR WhisperLite stove anymore. Everyone was using Hyperlite packs. Most people weren't even wearing boots anymore. And I was like ...
Shelby Stanger:
Just trail shoes, running shoes.
Diana Helmuth:
Yeah.
Shelby Stanger:
And spandex pants, which you have like a whole thing on - leggings.
Diana Helmuth:
Right because I was always told you have to wear those like hardcore, ultra sensible khakis. And I was like, I think if you can do those upside down pretzel yoga poses in it, I have a feeling you can walk backwards and forward than it. So I'm just going to wear leggings and see how that goes. And as long as it's not cotton, it's fair game. And just to wrap that up, leggings are wonderful on the trail unless you're going somewhere with mosquitoes and then it's like you're naked, which I learned to the hard way. Which is why you wear the sensible khakis. There's a reason for that after all. So I do call the book an anthology of my fuck ups that someone might learn from. But also it is the product of stuff I have discovered the hard way, but also talking to other people.
Diana Helmuth:
Every little question that had come up when I was hiking, I tried to include the answer in the book and it's tricky because a lot of the times the answer isn't something specific. The answer is, well, it's whatever works for you, but it's like, okay, that's an annoying answer. Can you speak more about that? And yes, I would like to. Let's look at all the different kinds of stoves there are. Which one actually meshes with your personality? Because they're all a little bit different and maybe you're broke, but if money's no object, you should do this. And if you're going to the desert, it's probably more prudent for you to dress like this. But if you're going to the mountains where there's water everywhere, you're going to want to dress differently. I tried to put in the book, what Team gave me, which is here's how to use your tools, but also how to think about your tools. And the mix of that is I think where you end up developing the skills.
Shelby Stanger:
You wrote a part called How To Hike With A Vagina.
Diana Helmuth:
Yeah.
Shelby Stanger:
And then a part called How To Hike With A Penis. So can you just read about hiking with a vagina because there's a lot of contradictory, confusing advice about what kind of underwear you should wear or not in the wild if you have a vagina.
Diana Helmuth:
So yeah. These are the recommendations in my opinion, for if you are hiking with a vagina. Number one, wear cotton underwear. Number two, don't let anyone tell you what to put in your vagina. Number three, avoid baby wipes or don't.
Shelby Stanger:
Because that's the whole thing is like, which one do you do? And I guess it just depends on the purpose. And then I like this advice, because this is so funny. So how to hike with a penis.
Diana Helmuth:
How to hike with a penis. I feel a bit bad about this one later. This is just a guess. Number one, enjoy it. Number two, like wash it sometimes.
Shelby Stanger:
I love that.
Diana Helmuth:
I mean, like listen, I'm a cis woman. So you write what you know, and I do think like, I don't know if this is misogyny or misandry coming through, hopefully neither. But there are moments of frustration when you're hiking with a vagina where you have to just deal with things that people hiking with penises don't have to deal with. They can just walk up to a tree and pee on it, standing up. I never have penis envy like I do in the woods but whatever. You get over it pretty quickly. It's not that bad.
Shelby Stanger:
Yeah. Peeing in the woods is always interesting. What's the feedback you get from your book that you love?
Diana Helmuth:
What a wonderful question. The feedback I get that I love, I think the nicest thing I hear is this inspired me. I mean, if you're a writer and someone says they were inspired by something you wrote, it's just like, oh my God, this is intoxicating. It's all you want to hear. So I would say that. I really appreciate when people say it's accessible, when people say it's practically useful and it made them laugh. That was my goal. And I consider that just like ... I mean, nothing feels better than hearing that.
Shelby Stanger:
Diana's guide is filled with her best tips and tricks. And it's already inspiring people to hit the trails. As an inexperienced backpacker, I had a lot of questions for Diana. What if your expensive new trail shoes give you blisters? How do you eat well and stay full on the trail? How do you set up camp when your feet are swollen, it's starting to rain and you're starving? That's a recipe for disaster. How does Diana avoid moments like these when she's on the trail?
Shelby Stanger:
Advice on food. That's always like really tricky for my partner and I. We hike with like almond butter on rice cakes and honey, and I'm just like, I can't eat another almond butter rice cake. Do you have any good advice of like a yummy meal that you make backpacking?
Diana Helmuth:
I do. I mean, I wish I had a better answer to this because especially like there's all these people on Instagram. And I have a whole book that's just like interesting and cool meals you can make in the back country that I have never opened because I just ...
Shelby Stanger:
I bet you, it was our friend Brendan Leonard's book.
Diana Helmuth:
And I love him by the way, Semi-Rad. He's amazing. My favorite thing to eat, I have two favorites, and they're just so easy that I just don't bother with anything else. It's macaroni and cheese. You take it out of the box beforehand so it compresses down and then you throw in a packet of tuna, tuna mac, just like Midwestern royalty right there in the middle of back country. And also you can mix like freeze dried potatoes, like Idahoan potatoes with stuffing and water and just put them together. And I know some people might be like ew, but it's just like Thanksgiving dinner in five minutes. It's so simple and it's the tastiest thing on Earth.
Diana Helmuth:
So the irony of like of going into the back country and like being in nature and like one with the trees and the plants and you're eating all of this ultra processed, ultra like factory made food, never kind of ceases to make me laugh. And some people have dehydrators. They like make all their own fancy stuff and good for them. I think that's awesome. But if you can't do that, it's perfectly fine to just go to the grocery store and like shop in the Hamburger Helper aisle and just get the freeze dried stuff. It's delicious and it does the job. It's fine.
Shelby Stanger:
Must have gear on the trail when you're going backpacking, and then like dumbest gear that you've taken?
Diana Helmuth:
Oh man. Must have gear. Really good shoes. It doesn't necessarily mean the most expensive shoes. It means shoes that you have broken in on more than one hike and that you know your feet will be allowed to expand a little bit in because if you start to get fucked up feet, even if everything else is going fine, your trip's over. Or at least it becomes a true death march at that point. Like we joke a lot about suffering outside, but if you want to suffer outside, wear the wrong shoes backpacking and nothing will feel good. That sounds obvious but it's less obvious than you'd think. I especially think that's true for women who tend to just wear the wrong shoe size, because I think we're pressured to buy smaller shoe sizes. And when you're buying hiking shoes, it's like get them wide, go big. Like just stop it. Like, you want to go hard here. Okay. Like get the big stuff, make sure your foot can swell. You got to get something bigger.
Shelby Stanger:
Smart. I always feel embarrassed to buy wide, but I'm like I buy Altras, which are just wide shoes, but I'm like I should just buy wide shoes.
Diana Helmuth:
I was nervous about that too for a long time. And then I suffered a mishap by wearing the wrong shoes on the trail and that just kind of erased all my shame. I think at that point, because I was in so much pain.
Shelby Stanger:
Interesting. Well thanks you for telling us that. I think that's really important. What about the dumbest gear you've taken along with you?
Diana Helmuth:
Oh my God. Too many. Wearing leggings in mosquito areas. Like I love leggings. They're cheap. They're great.
Shelby Stanger:
They're lightweight. They're packable.
Diana Helmuth:
Yeah. I mean they really are the ultimate outdoor clothing item. They really are until you're in mosquito season.
Shelby Stanger:
Gosh, I've been eaten by mosquitoes and it's the worst. I still don't understand how those little suckers can bite through your clothes. So take Diana's advice. Be careful with the leggings. You might not own a real pair of pants at this point in the pandemic, but backpacking is the time to break them out if you've got them. If you're new to hiking and camping, mosquitoes might not be the only thing you're worried about. For those of you who are nervous to try backpacking, Diana has some words of encouragement. Any advice to people who are curious, but a little nervous?
Diana Helmuth:
I would say very much in the vein of Coco Chanel, take one thing off. Like whatever you're bringing, probably take at least one thing off. I think there's this big urge when you first go out to over pack because everything I need has to be on me. So I have to bring all of this stuff and there's always something that's not worth it. Like you need water, you need food, you need shelter and just enough clothing. That's all you need. Your back will thank you. Your legs will thank you later. And I guess forgive yourself for going slow, forgive yourself for having a bad time, forgive yourself for regretting it, which you will, at one point.
Shelby Stanger:
I like that. Forgive yourself. Have you had to do that?
Diana Helmuth:
Yeah, I think when I was returning to backpacking in my later 20s after not doing it for some years and my body had changed, my body was bigger now and I realized I was slower. I was slower than the vast majority of backpackers, but I still felt like this was something I had done. And so it was, I don't want to say mine, but it felt like I had a personal relationship with this sport. So there was, I guess this entitlement that I was just going to go outside and do this, but very quickly I had to accept the fact that I was slow and I was really embarrassed about it. And then I realized no one cared, but me. The other hikers weren't looking at me as much as I thought they were. I mean, sometimes like you will get a little bit of a well meaning, but perhaps shitty comment from someone on the trail if you're in a bigger body.
Diana Helmuth:
But it doesn't happen as often as you think. And there's just this realization that they're in their own world and no one's looking at you, but you. And it's okay. I had to counter with the fact that it wasn't them who was judging me. It was me who was judging me. And I had to just sort of get over that if I actually wanted to have a good time.
Shelby Stanger:
I am the asshole who like speeds ahead because I competed in running in college. And like my mom like sometimes hates hiking with me. And now that I hike with my niece and nephew, it's like a whole different thing. It's so cool. Like they go like turtle pace.
Diana Helmuth:
You're like, so I'm forest bathing basically.
Shelby Stanger:
It's great. I see things that I've never seen before. And it's a different experience.
Diana Helmuth:
Yeah.
Shelby Stanger:
What about how to start?
Diana Helmuth:
Yeah, I think, I mean, there's tons of wonderful books for great backpacking routes that are around wherever you're living. Mountaineers Press writes a ton of them. The internet is a good resource, but I would take it with a huge grain of salt. The thing that I really, really like about books is that those people know that you can find them so they're less likely to give you ridiculous advice and they can give you actual routes with like suggested day stops. And you generally want to do those because there's going to be easy places to camp. There's going to be water stops. Like people, a lot of the time have already done this thinking for you and it's okay, take them up on it. Like you're going to be challenged anyway.
Diana Helmuth:
So I would say you could punch best beginner backpacking trips in blank, wherever you live into Google. I would recommend buying a book of the best trips in your area. They'll have all that info in there and it's better than anything you're going to find on the internet. I'm really not just saying that either. Like it's better to buy a book. It really is.
Shelby Stanger:
There's a lot of people listening to this podcast who want to go backpacking or want to quit their jobs and pursue their wild idea. Maybe it's being a writer, maybe it's being a podcast host, maybe it's being a full time adventurer. What's your advice to those who want to live more wildly? And what I mean by that is just ... My definition of wild has transformed over the years. Now it's like, you do the thing that makes you feel alive, but also that gives you purpose.
Diana Helmuth:
Yeah.
Shelby Stanger:
What's that for you? And how can people ... Advice to others on how they can get that as well?
Diana Helmuth:
I feel like I'm not quite in a place where I could give advice yet, but I think two things I wish and someone probably told me these when I was younger, but I wish I had taken them to heart sooner. Stop thinking you need to do everything by yourself. I think there's this idea that I really want to do something so I'm going to go for it. And I don't want to tell anyone about it because either it's because you're afraid people will see you fail, or it's because you're stuck in this weird American bootstrap mentality where you think you have to do everything on your own. And I wish I had let those go sooner because I didn't really start succeeding in my dream career until I started talking about it a lot.
Diana Helmuth:
And people helped me, I got into a writing group and they helped make this book what it is. And because I was talking about it, someone helped me find the person who connected me with the person who ended up becoming my agent. And if I had just kept all that to myself then none of that would've happened. I think, especially for writers because it's so self-directed, the idea of asking for help maybe feels contrary. But I think if you're writing, getting into a writing group is the greatest source of camaraderie and accountability you can find. And I guess beyond that, I mean, like I'm excited to be a full-time writer, but I wish someone had told me, you're still going to have to do shit you don't want to do. You're still going to wake up and go like ugh. You're still going to have those days. It's almost like wherever you go, there you are.
Shelby Stanger:
Backpacking can be joyful but there's still challenging moments. Even though getting up that incline is hard, the view at the top will always be worth it and there's no need to do it alone. Diana is here to help. Her book, How To Suffer Outside is available at rei.com. Diana, thank you so much for coming on the show. I love talking to you. I laugh so hard my stomach actually hurt so well done. Your book has inspired me to try backpacking again, even though my last experience didn't involve a tent, I will now take one. You can learn more about Diana at dianahelmuth.com. That's D-I-A-N-A H-E -L-M-U-T-H. You can also find Diana on Instagram at Definitely_Not_Lost. Definitely Not Lost.
Shelby Stanger:
Wild Ideas Worth Living is part of the REI Podcast Network. It's hosted by me, Shelby Stanger, written and edited by Annie Fassler and Sylvia Thomas and our senior producer is Chelsea Davis. Our executive producers are Paolo Mottola and Joe Crosby. As always, we love it when you follow this show, when you rate it and when you review it, wherever you listen, we read every single one of your reviews. They mean a ton. And remember, some of the best adventures happen when you follow your wildest ideas.