Jessie Krebs is a wilderness survival expert and Air Force veteran who prepares people for worst-case scenarios. Since her time in the Air Force, Jessie has used her experience to open her own wilderness survival school with a mission to share her knowledge with everyone, especially women, BIPOC, and LGBTQ folks, so they can more confidently, and safely explore the outdoors.
Jessie Krebs is a wilderness survival expert and Air Force veteran who prepares people for worst-case scenarios. Since her time in the Air Force, Jessie has used her experience to open her own wilderness survival school with a mission to share her knowledge with everyone, especially women, BIPOC, and LGBTQ folks, so they can more confidently, and safely explore the outdoors.
Connect with Jessie:
Thank you to our sponsor:
Shelby Stanger:
Getting outside in the winter is so beautiful. There's nothing like the ice crystals sparkling in the sun, and the quiet of a snowy landscape. Our team definitely takes advantage of the cooler weather. We love snowshoeing, hiking in the chilly air, and snowboarding up in the mountains. But it's important to remember that adventuring carries certain risks, and we have to be doubly careful when we're dealing with low temperatures, snow, and ice. Even a seasoned hiker can twist an ankle, or lose track of the trail. That's why wilderness survival expert Jessie Krebs works so hard to prepare people for worst-case scenarios.
Jessie Krebs:
Most of the time in a survival situation, you don't build a fire. It takes so much energy, and people will jump to fire before shelter, and clothing, which are your first two lines of defense. I would much rather build a shelter, get inside, clench my body, right? Macro muscles, micro movements. People say like, "Oh, do jumping jacks." No, because every time you jump, or you move, you're generating heat, but you're letting it all go. Versus if I just sit in one place, and I clench my whole body, clench every muscle, hold it for a few seconds, and release, and do it again, and release, and I'm building up heat, and I'm keeping it.
Shelby Stanger:
If you're a fan of the TV show Alone, like me, Jessie Krebs might sound familiar. She was a contestant on season nine where she lasted 46 days. Jessie is an Air Force veteran, and while she was in the military, she specialized in teaching survival, and evasion tactics to soldiers. Since then, Jessie has used her experience to open her own wilderness survival school. She's made it her mission to share her knowledge with everyone, especially women, BIPOC, and LGBTQ folks, so they can more confidently, and safely explore the outdoors. I'm Shelby Stanger, and this is Wild Ideas Worth Living, an REI Co-op Studios production brought to you by Capital One. Before we dive in, just a warning, Jessie's story contains mentions of abuse, and childhood trauma. Listener discretion is advised.
Jessie Krebs, welcome to Wild Ideas Worth Living. Excited to talk to you about winter camping and survival.
Jessie Krebs:
Glad to be here. Let's go play.
Shelby Stanger:
I just want to know a little bit about your background because you're this gnarly survivalist. You've been on Alone, you're just, you do it. So, as a kid, were you always like this? What was your relationship to the outdoors growing up, and where did you grow up?
Jessie Krebs:
Yeah, I was raised by a single mom in Michigan, and my earliest memories unfortunately, were of infant and childhood sexual abuse. So, getting outside, and going, and climbing trees, and making mud pies, and picking apart scat was my escape. Unlike, I think a lot of people, their experiences with wilderness, or just being outside are fairly limited, and often when it is, it's like, "Okay, mom, and dad took us on this camping trip, and ugh, it was raining, and it was whatever", and that's not what it was for me at all. It was much safer, and much more comfortable for me being outdoors, and I really preferred just listening to birds, and watching wildlife, and trying to catch fish in the streams, and picking up frogs, and that was my safe zone. That was where I felt best, and the most like me. That feels good to me still always.
Shelby Stanger:
I really appreciate you just like right off the bat telling me your story, and I appreciate your authenticity, and vulnerability in sharing that. So, thank you, and I'm glad you were able to find the outdoors, and that it has become this beautiful place for healing, and thriving for you. There's got to be something about this cold that you kind of like as well.
Jessie Krebs:
Yeah, there's a kind of challenge in the cold, and there's an energy I loved when I was a kid. The snow plows would come through, and then you've got this amazing huge hill of snow that you can dig into, and making all these tunnels through it, little shelves, and windows, and it was just so much fun. It's such an awesome building material, and then getting older, and going skiing, and walking on ice. It was up on Lake Champlain one year when the ice was two to three feet thick, and almost perfectly clear, and so much fun. You can hear the ice cracking, and crackling all around you just from pressure, and there'd be little bits of snow so you could run on the snow, and then hit the ice, and see how far you can slide. So, there's a lot of wonderful fun things about winter, and it's part of why I feel like I'll always live in a place that has all four seasons. It's just so much fun seeing the changes all the time.
Shelby Stanger:
Currently, Jessie lives in Pagosa Springs in Southwest, Colorado where she spends as much time as she can playing in the mountains. In the winter, she's happiest when there are big snow storms that dump two, or three feet of powder. Jessie has the skills, and knowledge to go on some pretty lengthy wild adventures like rafting in the open ocean in Hawaii, or backpacking through Egypt, and Israel. She's experienced in trapping, and scavenging for her own food, keeping herself warm, and building shelters. Jessie was first introduced to these survival skills right after high school when she went into the Air Force, and specialized in survival, and escape tactics. What made you want to join the Air Force?
Jessie Krebs:
There's a part of me, I always loved adventure stories, I think when I was a kid that had the heroine, or the hero, and they were warriors in one way, or another, they were people that fought for good things. And even when I was a kid, I would see people picking on animals, or other people, and it would drive me almost into a rage. I would just get this fierce protectiveness, and I think it was because of my own abuse, and my desire to have been protected that I had this fierce kind of mama bear complex. And so I think that was a big part of it for me, that I wanted to be trained to be able to defend, and to help people. So, part of it was that. Another was that I was raised in small town Michigan, and my mom has always been an adventurer, always, and it really gave me the adventure bug, and mom made it clear she was the first one in her generation to go to college, and she made it very clear that one way, or another she was going to make me go to college.
So, that was part of it too. I could get the GI bill, I could get out of the small town. I knew I needed discipline too, like mom tried, but I was kind of a wild child, so it fit a lot of bills for me.
Shelby Stanger:
In the Air Force, Jessie went to SERE school. SERE stands for Survival Evasion Resistance, and Escape. The training took about a year during which she mastered techniques to survive in every environment on the planet. She learned how to navigate, design shelters, treat injuries, build fires, all while evading enemy combatants. Throughout the training, she learned how to teach other people these skills, too. By the time she finished, Jessie became a full-time instructor.
Jessie Krebs:
My squad for at least the last year, or two I was in, was called the Beefy Boys. So, it was all these guys over 200 pounds, and then little me at 140, or something. So, it was pretty funny. But yeah, you'd have your academic week, you would teach them a lot of academics, and then an on-base kind of stuff, and then you'd take them out to the woods, and teach them a couple of days of kind of non-combat. Then another three to four days of combat, the last two of which was like, "Okay, we've taught you what to do, and how to evade combat. Bye-bye. We're going to become the aggressors. All your instructors are now going to be hunting you, and your mission is to try not to get caught by us." So, that was kind of last bit. And then they would get picked up, and taken down to resistance training, which is like a mock POW camp. So, that was kind of the cycle.
Shelby Stanger:
Wow, amazing. Any stories you can share from your time as a SERE specialist?
Jessie Krebs:
There was a funny, the guys would always pick on me a little bit. The rest of the team, the people, the students that you're teaching, you're going to be the example, and then they're supposed to do what you do. They're supposed to follow that, and learn how to bring in a helicopter, like right turn, left turn, level out. I'm going to be out here three o'clock in three, two, one, mark, whatever. Before they're going to listen to you at all, of course, they want to make sure that you are an American on the ground, not an enemy combatant who just speaks really good English pretending to be you on the ground. Otherwise, they could be guided right into death. So, we have isoprep forms, isolated personnel reports, and the guys, the rest of the group, women, and men that you're teaching, they would write down, "Hey, my baby sister blew her nose, and it was green, because she'd put a marker up her nose when she was three", and nobody knows that except them.
And so they would write that down in the personnel report, and now the helicopter that's coming for them is going to ask them, "Hey, what happened when your sister was three?" So that they can verify that this is the person they're supposed to be talking to. Well, with the instructors, we would've had to do it every month. They would just ask us something that most Americans would know, and inevitably they would tell me just to mess with me, right? They're like, "Sing the theme song to the Brady Bunch." So, I'm always like... You're all tactical. You got camouflage over your face. Your students are sitting there listening, "All right, this is really BA, right? We're calling it helicopter, and combat conditions." And I'm like, "Here's the story of lovely lady", right? And I'm sitting there singing this stupid song, and they would do it to me for like two years solid. The pilots would always ask me to sing that stupid song.
Shelby Stanger:
Jessie served as an active SERE specialist for four years. When she left the military, she had a few different jobs that bounced between teaching, and working outdoors. She guided team building activities at various ropes courses, worked at a climbing gym, and was a substitute high school teacher on a Navajo reservation. A few years later, she found wilderness therapy.
Jessie Krebs:
The military took me from this shy, quiet kid, and helped me stand up, speak in a loud voice, take command, do what needed to be done, but inside I needed to heal. I needed needed growth. I needed therapy. So, I got into wilderness therapy, and started working in that, and it just blew my mind.
Shelby Stanger:
Jessie connected with wilderness therapy so much that she began working for an addiction recovery program in Utah. At the same time, she was guiding wilderness survival trips for the general public. Eventually, she decided to combine elements from both wilderness therapy, and survival training into her own business.
Jessie Krebs:
I want to teach people that felt like me when I was a kid that don't know about wilderness, or that field that are working through issues, that are struggling. That's who I want to introduce wilderness to, because it was so healing for me, and I'd just been working in wilderness therapy all this time, and so I'm like, "Okay, I just really want my own school. I want to have a say, and I want to focus mostly on women, and other marginalized demographics." So, OWLS was born Outdoorsy Women Learning Survival Skills, and I love it. The women are amazing. It's just so beautiful having women get together, supporting other women, and learning badass skills in a really positive, fun, welcoming environment. There's just so much more sharing, just I love teaching women.
Shelby Stanger:
You say your goal is to make women wilder. What's that mean to you?
Jessie Krebs:
In so many different ways, we don't, in our modern lives, we're looking at around us dead walls, right? It's just everything's dead. We killed life, and we made dead things out of it, and it's not very fun, and it's not interactive, and it doesn't stimulate imagination, or life. And when I'm out sleeping outside, I'm saying hello to the lizard, and hello to the squirrel, and the bird, and the spider that's just walked across the shelter, right? I'm engaged with all of it, and there's something, there's a quote, I can't even remember who said it. It's like "We are only human when we are in connection, and conviviality with what is not human." And I really like that quote.
It helps me be more me. The wilderness doesn't care if we wear makeup, doesn't care what gender we are, doesn't care what our clothes look like, how much money we have, doesn't care. What is more freeing than that? I work with women, and women have all these expectations, both of each other sometimes, and of ourselves, and a culturally, we have so many expectations, and what is it like to be able to let go of all those expectations? It puts us in an environment that's so expansive, and creative, and so many things are happening all the time. It's just a beautiful space.
Shelby Stanger:
Jessie's school is called OWLS Skills, which stands for Outdoorsy Women Learning Survival Skills. She teaches courses that range from just one day to a week long, and cover a wide variety of topics like building a shelter, tying knots, and what to have with you when you're heading out to the wilderness. When we come back, Jessie shares her number one survival skill, and some easy tips to help us stay safe outside. Jessie Krebs is a wilderness survival skills expert. After leaving the Air Force, and discovering the value of wilderness therapy, Jessie decided to share her knowledge with the public. In 2022, she opened her own wilderness school called OWLS Skills. What types of survival skills do you teach?
Jessie Krebs:
I mostly work off of what I learned back in the military, and we always worked off the five basic needs. So, your first number one survival thing, it's always going to be the most important. It may not be what you're working at in the moment, but if things are really bad, it's what you're doing, is signaling. If I do nothing else in my life, but tell people when they're in the field, when they're in the wilderness, and something goes wrong, signal please. And there are three primary ways to do that. Pyrotechnics, electronic, and ground to air signals. Not a whistle. We want something that can be seen from a helicopter, they can be seen from a ridge five miles away. That's the kind of stuff we're looking for.
Shelby Stanger:
Okay. I never thought that signaling would be number one.
Jessie Krebs:
I know.
Shelby Stanger:
Sorry.
Jessie Krebs:
Drives me crazy. I know. No, [inaudible 00:15:56] all say that...
Shelby Stanger:
Is asking for help, right?
Jessie Krebs:
Yes. It's the main thing that differentiates survival from ancestral skills, and prepping, and bushcraft, all these other things. The purpose is to stay out there as long as possible, but survival, the main purpose is to get the hell out of there. And so people think when they go out there, there's been case, oh, my gosh, there's one case of this family, I can't remember the name exactly, but they were going flying across the Sierra Nevadas to go see their daughter's habitat, and so they're going to fly across the dad's got his pilot's license, mom, she's along for the ride, and their teenage daughter, Heather, or something was in the back, and they're going to fly across, and there's too many clouds. He's a visual-only pilot. He wasn't certified for electronics, for non-visual, so there's too many clouds.
They park for a while, they stop at airport just before the cross, and he's like, "Okay, I see a window. Let's give it a go." So, they take off. Long story short, they crash. Hung up at the trees. He's got some broken bones, but he gets down to the ground, and he tried to apparently hit the beacon, but it wasn't working on the aircraft to try to let the people know they needed help. So, he's running around trying to get food, trying to get firewood. It's cold. It was like March in the Sierra Nevadas, and he comes back, and at one point he's trying to drain, and fuel from the plane, and he lights it on fire, but it got on him. So, he's like in flames, and the daughter's screaming, but just luckily it's really high octane. So, it burned really fast. And he was, okay. So, all this goes on. They crash like a couple hours before dark, and now it's like midnight, and they're all huddled together in the cockpit of the plane, so cold, and the phone rings.
And so Heather goes drop into the bottom of the plane looking around, and comes up with all three of their cell phones, which are now almost dead because been sitting down there looking for signal for the last however many hours. And she misses the call, but it was Tabitha, right? She's like, "Where are you guys? You're late." And so I love this, because it's classic parent, teenager kind of thing, but the parents are like, "Call her back, tell her to send help." And Heather looks at them with the superiority only that a teenager can give, and says like, "I'm going to call 911 myself." So, she calls 911, and they manage, and it's actually, they basically are acting like they're taking pictures of the aircraft, so it makes a strobe light, and that's what finally gets them rescued. But his first thought on the ground is, "Oh, I got to make a shelter. I got to build a fire."
And that's what so many people do when they end up in a survival situation, they start thinking about everything else except signaling. Signaling is how can I make it easier for search, and rescue to find me? That that's the purpose. And they would love nothing better than to rescue someone, to have a positive story. They don't want to find a body. They want to find a human, and have a story for the rest of their lives about how they were able to help. So, help them do that, right?
Shelby Stanger:
Okay, so signaling is a big one, but how exactly can people do it effectively?
Jessie Krebs:
So, people think SOS from the air, mother nature is lush, right? She's got the curves going on like nobody's business, these lakes, and mountains. So, doing an S, and an O, and an S, which if you can, you'd like these to be at least 30 feet tall, even better, 60 feet. Can you imagine trying to draw an S on the ground that's like 30 feet tall? That actually looks like an S from the air, and that's just one letter. So, trying to do that three letters. So, that's a lot of effort, very difficult to do, and they tend to blend into the mother nature. So, what you're actually looking for is either a V, or an X. X means specifically, I need medical attention, a V just means I need assistance. If you think somebody might see it, and not have any idea why there's a big V on the ground, and won't come look for it, then somewhere off to the side, put a little tiny SOS if you want, but the V is what's going to catch their attention, right? Those straight lines.
Shelby Stanger:
If you take nothing else away from this episode, remember that the number one most important thing to do in an emergency situation is to signal. Another, is making sure you're warm enough. Jessie recommends relying on your clothing, equipment, and building a shelter before resorting to fire. A key technique is to optimize dead airspace. For folks who don't know, dead airspace is little pockets of air created by loose, and layered clothing. That air heats up, and stays heated because it's trapped in your clothes, and can't really move around.
Jessie Krebs:
You don't need clothing necessarily to create dead airspace. You find things around you that are going to keep as much loft as possible. In firecraft, we have pitchwood, which is also called sapwood, or fatwood, that's really dense, and really good for firecraft. It's very carbon high. Versus punkwood, which is the stuff that you pick it up, and it just crumbles. It's terrible for firecraft, but that punk wood, it's like cork. It's fantastic insulation. So, if you go up, especially to a dead standing tree, and especially in the winter time, usually it's bone dry, and it's been so chewed out by insects, they're gone. There's nothing left for them to do there. So, it's dry corky wood, right? That's fantastic. I make a joke that the outdoor industry is trying to kill women. I just said dead air space is what keeps you warm. What do most fashion designers do?
Shelby Stanger:
Tight.
Jessie Krebs:
Exactly. For women, it's got to fit our curves, right? So, I'll say I'd rather be a live shapeless lump than a cute corpse any day. So, making sure that you buy, when I buy clothes, if it's women's, I'm usually buying a size, or two, what people would consider too big, or I'm buying in the men's section, and that's so that I have plenty of dead air space. So, it can be a very thin, strong outer layer that I can cinch the wrists, and the waist of, and stuff it full of punk wood, something to create dead air space between me, and that layer that would otherwise be sitting right in my skin. And that can create dead air space. Most of the time in a survival situation, you don't build a fire. It takes so much energy, and people will jump to fire before shelter, and clothing, which are your first two lines of defense.
I would much rather build a shelter, get inside, clench my body, macro muscles, micro movements. People say like, "Oh do jumping jacks." No, because every time you jump, or you move, you're changing out the dead air space in your clothing for cold air. So, you're generating heat, but you're letting it all go. Versus if I just sit in one place, and I clench my whole body, clench every muscle, hold it for a few seconds, and release, and do it again, and release, and I'm building up heat, and I'm keeping it. So, all those concepts around clothing, and equipment, and shelter come way before fire. So, people I think get an inaccurate vision, or concept of how easy, or difficult it's going to be to get a fire going, especially in a survival situation.
Shelby Stanger:
I think fire is sexy, and that's what we all think.
Jessie Krebs:
It is sexy.
Shelby Stanger:
Aside from your clothing, shelter, and fire are other ways to stay warm. But remember that fire is fickle without a shelter to protect it, fire can be hard to start, and can extinguish easily depending on the conditions. In addition to signaling, and warmth, it's important to think about water, and food. Jessie says that staying hydrated is much more important than finding food. Unless you have a health condition like diabetes.
Jessie Krebs:
Don't eat unless you have a water source available. Digestion requires a lot of water, so if you're already not doing well, you're already starting to get dehydrated by eating, you just dehydrated yourself a lot more.
Shelby Stanger:
It's also valuable to know some basic navigation techniques like scouting, or using a compass. And of course, it's crucial to keep your mental, and physical health intact. Each situation is unique. So, aside from signaling, your plan of action depends on your most crucial needs. For example, if you're hurt, it's important to tend your injury before trying to find drinking water. All of this information can feel overwhelming, but Jessie has lots of great tips to help us break it down. Winter is right around the corner. Any advice you can give to listeners as we prepare for our winter adventures?
Jessie Krebs:
Oh, there's so many things we can talk about. Signaling is really easy. If you end up in trouble in the winter, grab a little bit of food dye. If it's bright red, especially against the snow is great, but you've just put a little bit of food dye right in your pocket. It is so easy if you end up in trouble, to be able to take that food dye, and mix it with little snow, or just throw it on the snow in a big V shape, or something to help people find you, right?
Shelby Stanger:
All of us want to go winter camping, or many of us do. And so most of us are just going to have a tent, and we're going to be outside. For some of us, it's going to be snowy for some of us, me, and San Diego, it's just going to be really cold. What tips, just besides the ones you gave us, can we also use to stay really warm?
Jessie Krebs:
If your sleeping bag is too long, I turn the sleeping bag inside out, and then tie a string about six inches, eight inches, whatever up from the bottom, tie it off, and then flip it right side out again. So, that shortens it, right? Because another problem that people have with feet getting cold in the winter is the sleeping bag literally is too big at the bottom. So, that's one technique. Another thing, I love sleeping bag liners, but I actually don't buy them from stores. I just take a full, or a queen-size sheet flannel in the winter, of course, and usually a fitted one.
And that's what I use for our sleeping bag liner in the winter, because when you touch it's already warm. Unlike most nylon sleeping bags. And I feel like personally, I don't know if anybody's done studies on it, but I think it raises the temperature rating of your sleeping bag by almost 20 degrees. It is so much nicer, and it creates that other layer around you, and you can pull again, that sheet up over your head. You can, oh, flannel sheets camping in the winter. What could be better?
Shelby Stanger:
Okay, so what happens if you get cold though? Sometimes it just happens. We get cold. How do we warm back up?
Jessie Krebs:
Yes, exercise is always going to be your best way to do that, but again, because we can generate, I think it's up to 18 times the amount of heat just by exercising, right? So, we'd say in when you take a first wilderness, first aid, or first responder course, if people are starting to go hypothermic, which means the umbels, right? Mumbling, stumbling, fumbling with things. So, if you see the umbels in yourself, or other people, that's a big red light. So, if you notice umbels at all, we say feed them, and beat them, which meant feed them. Give them some calories if you can, and then get them exercising, and they don't want to. The more hypothermic you go, the more lethargic you get. And so if they're still conscious enough to kind of move around, make them do the toe dance where you're trying to touch each other's toe, and dancing back, and forth, or jumping jacks, or whatever, and do that initially, but then you want them to conserve that heat.
So, then doing the micro movements, macro muscles, so getting them in a sleeping bag, lots of insulation, and just crimping everything together. Holding, and release, holding, and release. If you're in good shape, then you can also do hot water bottles. Personally, I love hot rocks are my favorite thing. I'll take a rock, and heat it up in the fire. Be careful if it's wet, it can explode. But I've used those for years, and years, and years in the wilderness, especially in the desert where it's not that wet. It's the water inside the rock that makes it explode. But those are fantastic.
Shelby Stanger:
That is amazing. Is there any pieces of equipment that we should bring with us besides layers, and a water bottle, especially for winter that we might not take with us in the summer?
Jessie Krebs:
So, anytime you're going on a hike, every time you're going on a hike, you're taking a survival kit, and your backpack is not your survival kit. Many people have lost their either crossing a stream, or in an avalanche, set it down, couldn't find it again, and now they have nothing, because they were thinking of everything I need is in my backpack, I'll be fine. So, making sure you have a survival kit, and in the wintertime that survival kit is going to be a little beefier. It doesn't necessarily have to be heavier, but it needs to have some way to get insulation. So, especially around where I'm in Colorado, we have a lot of fourteeners, right? Peaks over 14,000 feet, and around 11,000 feet, you lose the trees. So, when you get up above that, there's nothing but snow, and rock. And so people have really gotten in trouble because they had no way to sit down, or even lay down.
They could build a shelter out of snow, but they can't sit in it, or they're sitting on the snow, and they're getting cold, they're freezing. So, just taking, it doesn't have to be much, but if you just take a poly pad, right, which is a closed cell foam, just big enough for your butt that you can fold down in this little square that's like six inches by six inches, and you tuck that into a survival kit, that is something definitely for winter, the wide mouth water bottle, right? Usually you don't need to worry about water disinfectant so much in the wintertime if you're in a snowy environment. If you're getting it from groundwater, from streams, or lakes, you would still want to have some kind of disinfectant, which I usually use iodine. So, that's always good. Some way to get insulation. So, even if you're going to go out there, and it's like, "Oh, it's a nice warm winter day, it's like 50 out, and I'm going to go out, and my T-shirt." Day hikes are the most dangerous because people don't take enough to stay overnight.
So, if they get in trouble, and they break something, they twist an ankle, they got lost, and now they're stuck out overnight. They don't have enough equipment with them to stay alive. So, having, again, even if it's just the lightest, lightweight windbreaker that's a size, or two too big for you, or full rain gear, if you can, that's really, really lightweight, but too big that you can stuff with other insulation if you really have to if you end up in trouble, and depending on the environment, you may also want just a space blanket that you can put up into a shelter, and also makes an excellent signal.
Shelby Stanger:
Jessie also says that it's great to pack extra calorie-dense food even for a day hike. And remember, you should always tell someone where you're going, and when to call emergency services if they don't hear from you. Jessie has lots of knowledge, and skills to share. If you want to learn more, and find out about her courses, follow her on Instagram at OWLS.Skills, that's O-W-L-S, dot, S-K-I-L-L-S. We'll also link to a bunch of the items Jessie mentioned in our show notes, like a space blanket, sit pad, lightweight windbreaker, and wide-mouthed water bottle. If you liked this episode, you might also like our interview with Kylan Moroney, an Alone contestant who now lives, and guides people in adventures in remote parts of Canada. As always, we'll link to that episode also in the show notes.
If you're inspired by Jessie, or have some fun winter adventures coming up, we'd love to hear about it. Send us an email at podcast@rei.com, or leave us a comment, or review on your favorite podcast app. Wild Ideas Worth Living is part of the REI Podcast Network. It's by me, Shelby Stanger, produced by Annie Fassler, Sylvia Thomas, and Sam Piers Nitzberg of Puddle Creative. Our senior producers are Jenny Barber, and Hannah Boyd. Our executive producers are Paolo Motila, and Joe Crosby. As always, we love when you follow the show. Take time to rate it, and write a review wherever you'd listen. And remember, some of the best adventures happen when you follow your wildest ideas.