Ron Griswell is an outdoor educator and founder of HBCU's Outside, a nonprofit dedicated to connecting students at historically Black colleges and universities with nature. After taking a gap year from North Carolina A&T State University to work as an adventure guide, Ron discovered a deeper purpose in the outdoors. Motivated by the lack of outdoor opportunities at his HBCU, he launched a movement to make nature more accessible and inclusive. His work continues to inspire the next generation of outdoor leaders.
Ron Griswell is an outdoor educator and founder of HBCU's Outside, a nonprofit dedicated to connecting students at historically Black colleges and universities with nature. After taking a gap year from North Carolina A&T State University to work as an adventure guide, Ron discovered a deeper purpose in the outdoors. Motivated by the lack of outdoor opportunities at his HBCU, he launched a movement to make nature more accessible and inclusive. His work continues to inspire the next generation of outdoor leaders.
Connect with Ron:
Take the 5-minute Listener Survey!
Thank you to our sponsors:
Shelby Stanger:
Whether he's dog sledding in Minnesota, snorkeling in Belize, or whitewater rafting in the Grand Canyon. Ron Griswell has the time of his life when he's adventuring outside. But what really feeds his soul is sharing those wild experiences with others.
Ron Griswell:
As a recreationalist, whether that's: you are sitting in a hammock in a park, or whether you are kayaking for 21 days in Baja, it is your mission to share those experiences with other people. Because when you're able to share these experiences with other people and get them inspired and also help them with accessing those things, I think it creates a ripple effect so that other people can also find themselves in these beautiful spaces and become stewards as well.
Shelby Stanger:
One of the most pivotal events of Ron Griswell's life was when he took a break from college to become an adventure guide. Ron went to North Carolina A&T University, which is a historically Black university, also known as an HBCU. His school didn't have a lot of outdoor opportunities, and taking a gap year was a leap of faith. Fortunately, working as a guide helped Ron uncover a new sense of purpose. He became determined to share his experiences with his fellow students. That's why in 2020, he started a non-profit called HBCUs Outside. I'm Shelby Stanger, and this is Wild Ideas Worth Living, an REI Co-op Studios production presented by Capital One and the REI Co-op MasterCard.
Ron Griswell, welcome to Wild Ideas Worth Living. For the people who don't know you, tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do?
Ron Griswell:
Absolutely. I am the founder and director of HBCUs Outside, and a lot of my time, I want to say is really, I would say showing up in the world as a guide, showing up in the world as not just someone who meets people where they are, but gives people the resources of how they can get to where they need to go.
Shelby Stanger:
Being a guide, I feel like is getting to the wild idea finale of a video game. Yes, you can go achieve a wild idea, but then to teach others to go have their own wild ideas, I think that's the ultimate unlock. That's where you touch the flag at Super Mario Brothers. I'm kind of old, so I don't really know current video games, but I feel like that's it. That's where you get the pot of gold. So real quick, you work with these universities to get kids outside, which we're going to really dive into, but I kind of want to know how did you get into nature and the outdoors?
Ron Griswell:
Ooh, I grew up in coastal North Carolina and I spent a lot of days and times in the fields, in the woods, just playing around, being inspired by people like Indiana Jones and other people on Nat Geo. I was a kid that went to the library and got Nat Geo documentaries because these explorers' lives were just so amazing to me. I am starting to understand that my childhood has always been outdoorsy. It's just that the activities I was doing I didn't necessarily see in popular media or as being outdoors. It was just part of life to me. And so I am learning to come to terms and accept that these very soft moments of being in the outdoors were also very real outdoor moments, like helping my grandmother tend to her hydrangeas or being out in the woods playing until the sun goes down and catching crawfish in the ditch and things like that. I've always had these moments of being outdoors. It's just that when I was younger, I didn't know that was actually outdoors. I just thought, I'm outside until my parents say we can come in the house.
But yeah, so I like to say that I've always been outdoors. At the same time, there is a very real track of how I got outdoors, which started with a re-inspiration, a spark that I received after attending a service learning experience when I was at A&T State University in Greensboro, the largest HBCU in the nation, and this is a service learning experience that we did. We went down to Belize, we lived amongst this very small community in the Punta Gorda district. It reminded me a lot of home, but even more just chill. Getting up in the morning, going fishing, bringing food back, eating as like a giant community.
Shelby Stanger:
Back up for a second. So you were a sophomore, freshman in college?
Ron Griswell:
Oh God. I was old enough to drink, so I'm going to say 21. But the thing that really got me going was every day we were outdoors, in a very intentional way, engaged in some different kind of outdoor experience. One day we went trekking to visit some pyramids in the area. Another day we went sea kayaking. We also did some snorkeling, and so we are diving down in the ocean, looking off into the distance to see... I don't know how many people have had a chance to see a barracuda in its habitat, but you're down beneath these crystal blue waters. There's reefs beneath you, turtles, octopus, all these other colorful fish, and then off in the distance you see a fish completely still not shifting with the ocean currents or the waves. It was kind of eerie, but very beautiful, something to be like, wow, look at that. And so that was one of those moments I was just like, this is insane.
Outside of that, we did some hiking through the jungle. I stepped in, to this day, I call it quicksand. I don't know what it was, but I stepped over a branch and within a second I was up to my thigh in mud, but I was still holding onto the tree. And you would think that sounds crazy scary. In that moment, I'll never forget how hysterically I laughed. I was just laughing. It was all these memories coming back to me of just the movies I used to watch. Indiana Jones, these just crazy adventures. I'm like, this is the most amazing thing I could think of doing right now. I would've never dreamed of having an experience like this.
And that entire trip just really sparked something that has always been in me, which was this interest of being outdoors, this interest of going beyond experiencing what does it look like to expand my comfort zone. I was just like, I need to find a way to get back to this. I made it my mission. It was like, when I get back to campus, I'm going to figure out what it looks like to dive into more experiences like this.
Shelby Stanger:
When he returned from Belize, Ron was excited to find out what other outdoor opportunities there were at A&T. He was disappointed to learn that there weren't really any resources to go on more outdoor trips, so he started thinking, how could he organize his own adventures? Ron's new obsession took his attention away from his studies though, and he started struggling in school. He even considered dropping out so that he could spend more time outside. Ron found an internship at a guiding company called Wilderness Inquiry, which hosts trips all over the world. The prospect of dropping out of school was a big decision, so Ron sought guidance from a trusted staff member at A&T.
Ron Griswell:
Her name was Ms. Sharon Hoard. I had went to her, I told her what I was struggling with and she was like, "Hey, take a gap year." She told me, "Take a year. And the thing I want you to promise me though is wherever you go out there, make sure you bring it back. Bring it back to the university. Don't just go out there. I'm writing you the recommendation because I know you're going to be back because you're going to share the amazing and fun things you did. You're going to share the resources that you were able to acquire and you're going to help this institution grow." She was like, "That's the only promise I'm going to charge you with." And so she wrote my recommendation letter. The job got back to me. They said, "We want to have you on. Can you come out this summer and be an intern?" And I told them, "Actually, I have availability this winter. I can be there in a couple weeks."
Shelby Stanger:
Ron arrived in Minnesota for his internship at Wilderness Inquiry in the winter of 2013. At first, he spent most of his time doing admin work, but occasionally he filled in as an assistant guide. Many of Wilderness Inquiry's trips are focused on guiding people with disabilities, which proved to be transformative for Ron.
Ron Griswell:
When I first got to this internship, the gentleman who hired me, shout out to my mentor, his name is Joshua Garibonda. He was the founder and director at the time, and he says, "Hey Ron, I know you've only been here for a little while, but how would you like to go to the Grand Canyon this August?" And my jaw just dropped. I was like, oh, they're playing with me. Of course I can't go. I'm not a certified white water raft guy or anything like that. And I said, "Seriously?" And he was like, "Yeah." He said, "You're going to go representing WI to be an assistant guide, but of course we know you don't know anything about whitewater rafting, so your goal is to be a community guide, and also to support Mr. Bob." I was like, "Who's Mr. Bob?" And he was like, everyone, all the participants on the trip for the most part have some sort of cognitive disability, and we offer this trip as a way so that they can experience the canyon in its full glory."
And so I meet Mr. Bob. He's been probably to more places than anyone I probably know of. He has cerebral palsy. He uses a talk board to communicate, pointing to words and letters. He also uses a wheelchair to get around. And after meeting him, I was charged. He was like, Ron, don't let anything happen to this man. And so in going down there, I understood my mission, but I also understood that this was a once in a lifetime opportunity to go to the Grand Canyon as well.
We go down during August and up until, I want to say, six to seven days in, I had been just absolutely exhausted. Keeping up with Mr. Bob was probably one of the most challenging things I ever had to do, not just because of what he required, but also there was this battle in my mind of how do I support this person while also making sure I'm given time to myself to support my dreams and just being able to fully be submerged in this place of the Grand Canyon.
And I remember it had got up to a point where one day I woke up, I got Mr. Bob out of his tent, I took him to breakfast at the breakfast table. I was like, "All right, I'll be right back to enjoy breakfast with you. And I went back to the tent. I closed everything down, packed everything up, got the bags ready, took them to the boat so that we can pull out. And I was like, first, let me go eat some breakfast now. So I turned around to go eat breakfast. Breakfast has been cleared. There's no breakfast for Ron. And Ron just got finished staying up the whole night basically and packing all the bags. And I just had this moment where I didn't really say anything. It was just like "ah," and this deep sigh. As I mentioned to you, Mr. Bob uses a talk board to communicate, and this was a change in this trip for me. In that he saw this look on my face and he started to communicate with me.
He said, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And that's all he could communicate was, I'm sorry. And I just kind of burst out in tears because he knew what was required to help him to be on a trip like this. And up to that point, I think I had just been so selfish mentally with the age that I was at, it was just like, what does it look like for me to enjoy this as well? And I remembered that wasn't what I was charged with. The goal that I was charged with was that I am here in order to help someone else experience this moment, this place and this space. And so from that moment after he started kind of crying, telling me that he was sorry, I kind of hugged him and was like, it's okay. Mr. Bob, we're in this together. And so from the rest of that trip, I was just like, whatever Mr. Bob needed, but more than that, just going above and beyond.
There was this hike that we had to do and the guys stopped us all, we had to climb up boulders and all these other things was steep as well. And it was like, all right, everyone who uses a wheelchair, we have to stop right here. Everyone else continue on. I was like, hell no. Why are we doing that? And so I was like, "Mr. Bob, if you're okay with it, can you get on my back and I'ma hike you to the end of this trail?" He got on my back and I was climbing over boulders with support from everybody else, and we get to the end of this trail and there's nothing at the end of this little slot canyon, there's this little trickling waterfall. I just remember the joy Mr. Bob had from getting to the end. That was another moment. It was just like, oh my God, this is what it's about. I am so fulfilled by this that it is worth the immediate happiness I may have received by just getting to the end of this trail by myself.
Shelby Stanger:
That trip to the Grand Canyon was a turning point for Ron. He discovered that spending time outside is way better when you're opening the door for someone else. As a guide, he went back to the Grand Canyon a few times, went on a dog sledding trip in Minnesota and learned to canoe on the Mississippi. With each trip, Ron saw the impact he was having and he became determined to bring these experiences back to A&T.
Ron Griswell took a break from college to become an adventure guide. What was supposed to be just one gap year turned into three, and he considered working as a guide indefinitely, but he couldn't shake a promise he'd made to Ms. Sharon Hoard back at North Carolina A&T. She'd asked him to bring whatever he learned during his time away back to his fellow students.
Ron Griswell:
That charge. That promise that I made started to just eat at my soul. 'Ron, make sure you bring it back.' Because I was very comfortable. I was like, I can continue doing this summer and winter thing just guiding all across the country, even outside of the country, and I think I will be content. And then that promise just kept coming back and I was like, okay, if I did that, I don't think I'll ever be happy with that decision down the road. So the decision to actually re-enroll was extremely easy for me.
Shelby Stanger:
It's really interesting. I think sometimes as young people, I wish I had a gap year. I could have gotten some ants out of my pants, instead I just graduated really early and took jobs that I was completely under-qualified for and suffered, but got away with it. But I think that's really interesting. So how did you bring your love of the outdoors back to school? Is that when you started HBCU Outside?
Ron Griswell:
The first thing I did after re-enrolling in the school, I was like, all right, well Ron, you got to be passing. You got to make sure your grades are good and all that stuff like that. And so I was like, all right, this is definitely going to be a focus, but while you're doing that, go ahead and make the connections you need to make on campus to understand what does it look like to start an outdoor club, start an outdoor program, whatever it may be, or just find a community that you can start sharing your experiences with. And what I ended up doing was going to the Department of Recreation on my campus and meeting an amazing mentor there who was also my boss, Mr. Xavier Carrington. And he really just took me underneath his wing and kind of just let me, as the kids say, cook. He just let me really just do what I wanted to in terms of bringing and curating different outdoor experiences for the campus community.
Everything from horseback riding to these sort of cabin weekends at this nearby state park called Hanging Rock State Park. So we'll go to the cabins and then I'll lead a hike up to the giant scenic view of just all the different mountains in the background. So those weekends were definitely some of my favorite. There were skiing and snowboarding experiences all the way out in Western North Carolina. There were things that were more close to home that I definitely love for the fact that it shows students an area that they were unfamiliar with, but allowed them to understand how they can get to a place by themselves. But yeah, those are just some of the kinds of experiences that I was able to help curate.
Shelby Stanger:
So how did you go from organizing these trips as a student to doing it as a job?
Ron Griswell:
Professionally that next step was my mentor, Xavier Carrington, helped provide me with a position that I can call my own, which was Outdoor Program Coordinator, which the university has never seen. And that was a part of the sort of vision and dream that I had, that, what would it look like for an institution like an HBCU to develop their own outdoor program. After a while, I started to understand all the red tape and other things that came along with working in an institution and start to think to myself, what does it look like to do this outside of the institution and be a resource instead for these communities?
Shelby Stanger:
Ron brainstormed ways that he could bring outdoor experiences to HBCUs beyond A&T University. He began networking in the outdoor industry and talking to brands about making this project a reality. In 2020, Ron officially founded HBCUs Outside. He was able to link up with the brand Teva, which provided free shoes and gear to some of the first students in the program. Today, HBCUs Outside works with 16 schools across the country and they engage roughly 500 students per year.
Ron Griswell:
Our core concept is being able to equip HBCU students in order to start or build these outing clubs in order to blossom into outdoor programs on their campus. So this is completely up to the students. I think we give the students sort of the guidelines of like, hey, the experiences should tailor towards stewardship or the experiences should be close to home, but pretty much letting them decide and do whatever it is that they want to. Because I think the main thing is people used to think, oh, you all employ the students? Like, no, we collaborate with the students. This is a student owned and operated organization. One that we want the university to recognize, but we want to empower the students. We are not the ones that are running these operations ourselves. And so the students have done just a plethora of different things.
So everything from hosting camp outs to ice skating, to archery, horseback riding, sea kayaking experiences, snowboarding and skiing trips. And I think the very beautiful part of it is that some of our participants or some of our ambassadors have been able to reach out and say, hey, does this count? And it will be ways that we, Black Americans have historically engaged in nature, but people don't necessarily count as outdoor recreation. And so for those that reach out and say, Hey, we want to do a cookout. It's like, absolutely. You're outside and you're cooking out. This is a great way to engage a large number of people, especially those who may be skeptical of, all right, what are you all doing? It's like we're having food outside. Okay, perfect. A lot of people can sign on to that. And that helps as a great introduction to so many students who want to join, I would say these sort of outdoor outing clubs, but may be scared of what that comfort zone looks like.
But being able to say something like, hey, we're hosting a fish fry, or We are hosting this cookout in this local park or right here on campus, that really gets the needle moving for a lot of these campuses. And then from there they can say, we're also going to try these things and you all should come and do these things with us because they're going to also be really awesome.
Shelby Stanger:
Do you have any stories about how the program has impacted students on campus?
Ron Griswell:
Oh man. The first story I'm going to start with is our first ambassador. This kid for one, I think there's a reframing that happens around a lot of the work that we do as well. I talked about those cultural specific activities, and I think it is not I think, I believe it's really important that students are able to reframe what the outdoors is and understanding that it's something right in their backyard and things that they've always been doing as well.
And so starting with this first student, he was our first student representing FAMU. FAMU was the first university that we worked with down in Tallahassee, I believe. And I think there was just a shift that was able to happen, not necessarily from anything he had planned on campus, but from his first conversation and meeting me, which was, he hopped onto the call, my full name's Ronald, by the way, Ronald Griswell, and this is a intake call to see if he wants to be an ambassador. And he's on the call, I hop in, and he was like, "Ronald?" I'm like, "Yo, what's up?" He was just like, "I was expecting you to be an old white man."
He was like with a name like Ronald. And I was like, I'm not going to take any offense. But he was like, I feel so empowered because he said, "You are a young Black man with locks just like me. And I never thought I'll see anyone in this industry." He was new to the industry doing things outdoors. He's like, "I never thought that someone like you would be on the other side of this call to have this intake call." And so to me, that just really pulled at my heartstrings because of what we were able to validate and him seeing us operating this thing. And the other side to it is something that I learned is that FAMU had a bouldering wall, which is quite out of the ordinary for a lot of HBCUs. And so to understand that they had that and then to empower him to go and restart that bouldering wall to run his operations, was something that for us created just another institutional change because this was something that hasn't been operating for years.
And so to give him the resources he needed so that bouldering wall on their campus could start functioning and they can have guides come in from other campuses nearby them, but also locally to start teaching the students bouldering. It was like he single-handedly has been able to shift the experience of students on that campus because of offering them a resource that historically wasn't there or wasn't well utilized. And so that is something that I'm looking at those sort of just institutional change ways where students are just really shifting the narrative on their campus.
Shelby Stanger:
You really love this work and you invest in yourself. You're not afraid to learn what you need to do to take it back to your community. And I'm just curious, a lot of people are afraid of that. Maybe tell me a little bit about that process.
Ron Griswell:
So I foremost, one of the most important things, and this is part of that charge I received from Ms. Sharon Hoard, which was when you learn something, make sure you bring it back. As a recreationalist, whether that's: you are sitting in a hammock in a park, or whether you are kayaking for 21 days in Baja, it is your mission to share those experiences with other people. I think that's one of the main goals for recreationalists to do is be able to share their experiences. Because when you're able to share these experiences with other people and get them inspired and also help them with accessing those things, I think it creates a ripple effect so that other people can also find themselves in these beautiful spaces and become stewards as well. And so those are really the way that I'm looking at it as how is it that I'm able to show up best for the work that I'm doing?
And that is through continuing to create moments where other people can tap in and say, oh, I want to experience this too. And that's not going to happen if I'm not sharing the joy I get from walking my son in the stroller on a two-hour walk, or from the moment of tranquility I get from sitting underneath a tree and just listening to the songbirds. So it's up to me to continue to share those moments of joy and peace in the outdoors to inspire others, as well as making sure that I'm showing up as an asset and resource to other people so that if they want to access that same thing, I'm helping them do so.
Shelby Stanger:
If you're interested in bringing HBCUs Outside to your school or learning more about the work they do, you can find them on Instagram at HBCUs Outside and at HBCUsOutside.com. That's H-B-C-U-S Outside.
Ron is also the co-founder of Boyz N The Wood, which is an outdoors organization for Black men to build brotherhood, fortify mental wellbeing, and engage their personal development. We'll put a link to their website in our show notes. Wild Ideas Worth Living is part of the REI podcast Network. It's hosted by me, Shelby Stanger, produced by Annie Fassler, Sylvia Thomas, and Sam Peers Nitzberg of Puddle Creative. Our senior producer is Jenny Barber, and our executive producers are Paola Mottola and Joe Crosby. As always, we love it when you follow the show, take time to rate it and write a review wherever you listen. And remember, some of the best adventures happen when you follow your wildest ideas.