At 19, Jade Darmawangsa took on the wild challenge of surfing Pipeline—the most iconic and dangerous wave on the planet. But there were two major obstacles: she didn't know how to surf, and she couldn’t swim.
At 19, Jade Darmawangsa took on the wild challenge of surfing Pipeline—the most iconic and dangerous wave on the planet. There were two major obstacles: she didn't know how to surf, and she couldn’t swim.
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Shelby Stanger:
When Jade Darmawangsa was 19 years old, she had a wild idea: to surf Pipeline, one of the most iconic and dangerous waves in the world. There was one catch, she had no experience surfing. In fact, she didn't even know how to swim. But Jade always felt drawn to the ocean and surfing was the perfect way to explore a new side of herself. Almost immediately, Jade was mesmerized by Pipeline, a wave known for its massive size, long, perfect barrels, and the fact that it breaks over a very shallow reef. Riding Pipeline is incredibly risky, and it's usually only attempted by experienced surfers. Jade started from square one.
She took swim lessons, surf lessons, put in hundreds of hours of hard work, and she finally paddled out at Pipeline in April 2024. I'm Shelby Stanger, and this is Wild Ideas Worth Living. An REI Co-op Studios production brought to you by Capital One. Before she started surfing, Jade Darmawangsa was a successful content creator and YouTuber. She started making videos when she was just 10 years old. At age 16, Jade dropped out of high school to pursue content creation full time. Though her YouTube career has been successful and fulfilling, she yearned to reclaim a sense of adventure that she didn't experience as a teen.
Jade Darmawangsa, welcome to Wild Ideas Worth Living. I'm excited to talk to you because I read your story online and you had a wild idea that deeply resonated with me that I was like, "Wow, that is really cool." You had this wild idea to surf Pipeline with very little, almost no surfing experience or background. You didn't grow up on the beach. Where did you grow up?
Jade Darmawangsa:
I grew up majority of my life in Portland, Oregon. So no beach. We have skiing, but even then my parents weren't skiers, so I did not grow up with any action sports.
Shelby Stanger:
Tell me a little bit more about your parents. I mean, I watched one of your videos and you said you grew up in a household where you were pushed really hard. You play the violin really well.
Jade Darmawangsa:
I think my parents were just stoked for me on the path of violin, and I think like my dad, he builds apps and my mom, she's a stay-at-home mom. But when I was 16, so after I'd been doing YouTube for a few years, I decided to pursue it full time and I dropped out of high school and miraculously my parents were cool with it. I mean, they weren't cool, I had to convince, but I think they just pushed me always to whatever you do, just do it 110% because my dad is also an entrepreneur.
Shelby Stanger:
This is really interesting to me. What year was this when you started your YouTube channel?
Jade Darmawangsa:
2009 is the upload date. I first uploaded.
Shelby Stanger:
So in 2009 you started a YouTube channel and then you dropped out of high school?
Jade Darmawangsa:
Yes.
Shelby Stanger:
And you did it?
Jade Darmawangsa:
I actually did it.
Shelby Stanger:
Did you ever go back?
Jade Darmawangsa:
No. I think initially the reason why my parents were so cool about me dropping out, they genuinely thought, "Oh, Jay's going to be doing YouTube for maybe a year, and she'll come back. She's just taking a break." And I think initially I was thinking that too. I wasn't thinking I was going to become a full-time creator, entrepreneur, but actually once I dropped that I was like, "No, this is what I want to do." And it's really interesting because a lot of people I see drop out of school because they make a lot of money or they become a big YouTuber. The thing is, I actually had zero subscribers.
I think I had 10,000 YouTube subscribers at the time, but I don't know if it's delusion or a dream, but I had this vision where I'm going to make it and it's going to take me a minute, but I'm going to make it. And then I started uploading videos every day, vlogs at the time. But YouTube, it basically was a really slow journey of starting at 10-11 and then taking it more seriously when I was 16 and then full-time when I was 18. And then I was like, "Okay, I'm ready to move to L.A." And that journey was such a crazy time because I genuinely now even till this day, don't know how I had that much faith in myself.
There's a lot of risks, and I didn't really have that safety net where, "Oh, if all things go wrong, my parents will still cover me." I was funding my LA life on my own at least. So I was just very, very confident for some reason
Shelby Stanger:
At first, Jade's videos were vlogs documenting her life, but soon she pivoted to making content about running a business, how to grow a social media following, how to hustle, and even how to make smart financial decisions. Her videos performed well. When she was 16 years old, Jade also started a marketing agency that did social media for other businesses, including local coffee shops in Portland, where she grew up.
Over a decade into her YouTube career, Jade felt worn out. She was itching for a new adventure. Jade had never surfed before. Heck, she didn't even know how to swim at the time, but she decided now is the time to try. When did you get this wild idea to surf?
Jade Darmawangsa:
So I was pretty stressed with content, I think. For example, I grew from zero to 200,000 YouTube subscribers in a year and a half, and then I was doing my agency still, and I was really, really... I know this sounds kind of silly, but at the ripe age of 19 or 20 years old, I was like, "I'm burnt out." I wanted to find an outlet. So this is 2020, right when Covid hit, everything was closed. There was nothing to do, but there was the ocean. So I was like, "You know what? I don't know how to swim, but I want to take a surf lesson." So I took a surf lesson at Huntington Beach. This first lesson, I don't know how to explain it.
I didn't tell my surf instructor, I didn't know how to swim, so he might be like, "Jade, what the heck?" But I was so hooked even though I was on a foam board in Huntington Beach and the waves were so bad, but I was so hooked because I felt so present and I never felt that present in anything I did before. Maybe when I was editing videos, I feel present, but not to that level of surfing, and that's kind of how I started.
Shelby Stanger:
I'm always curious, I pushed probably a thousand people into their first wave and it's the best feeling in the world, but I want to know what it was like catching your first wave.
Jade Darmawangsa:
So I actually didn't even catch my first wave until the second session or third. So I think when I first caught my wave after literally trying probably two hours paying a lesson and going at it for a while feeling really stupid, I just felt like, "Oh my gosh, the work I put in, it's finally paid off." And I don't know how, to me that really resonated. I just really relate to that. It was so hard, but it was worth it. I say that to my content journey and I think that was the epiphany I had with surfing. I think one more layer to this too is I had a really bad experience almost drowning in a lake when I was really young.
And I was so terrified of swimming and I was really tired of letting my fear stop me from going to the beach with my friends, going swimming in the ocean, and that was so painful to me because I like being active. So I decided, "You know what? I'm just going to surf." And I think that feeling of like, "Wow, it's not that scary." Well, it was still scary, but it wasn't as bad. I think that was really relieving to me.
Shelby Stanger:
I'm seeing this really beautiful thread and theme of bravery throughout your life. Even though I'm scared, I'm going to do it anyway. You learn to surf. You have no business surfing because you can't swim. As a surf instructor, I'm like, "Oh my gosh." I've taught people who don't know how to swim to surf. You just have to be careful. It's nice to know that your student doesn't know how to swim for safety reasons. So how long in your surfing journey do you say, "Oh, I want to go surf Pipeline?"
Jade Darmawangsa:
So I'm a huge vision person. So while I was learning to surf, I was watching John John Florence's documentary, and I'm not joking. I watched the first episode every morning twice a day, and it wasn't necessarily John John Florence. Obviously his surfing is insane, but it's what he said in the beginning of this video, and I'm just going to quote it because I know it by heart, so embarrassing. He says, "The sunny times, the dark times, the things I've learned, the things that I had to suffer, my goals, my dreams, my setbacks, my injuries, and the friends I've lost, the small waves, the big waves, the falls and the makes, everything has led me to where I am right now and I'm going to enjoy it."
That 30 second intro, I watched it every day. It just made me realize, "Wow, as a highest level surfer, he's stoked not only about winning, but he's realizing all those really horrible things that come up surfing because it's really frustrating. He's allowing to enjoy it and he knows it's led to where he is now." And to me, that really hit home because I was like, "Wow, I feel like in my life I have setbacks." Whether that's feeling like I didn't have community, I had some health problems growing up, money problems, but I would always try to change my narrative. I need to fix it now. I think I realized nothing is a waste of time.
Even if you do something and you're like, "I don't connect with it," but you change it, that's a part of your journey. And I think watching that video made me realize, "Wow, I want to just embrace every part of it." Now the Pipeline thing, I think that's where it connected. I was on this path of being a violinist, going to school, student and marketing. I want to switch paths because I wasn't happy and I think for me, just the way my brain operates is I need a goal. By the way, this is one month into taking lessons maybe once a week, so I had four lessons total. I call my surf coach, I record my camera, I'm on the phone. I'm like, "Hey, I want to surf Pipeline, what would it take?"
Surf coach:
You'd need to definitely train and get your surfing and swimming for sure on point. Deadly wave. I mean people die there. It's pretty serious.
Jade Darmawangsa:
Is it unrealistic?
Surf coach:
I mean, nothing's unrealistic, whatever. I mean if you really put your mind to it and you surf every day. It would take a lot of work for sure.
Shelby Stanger:
Pipeline is known as one of the world's most dangerous surfing spots located on the North Shore of Oahu in Hawaii. The waves are often 10 to 20 feet high in the winter months. There is so much energy in such a concentrated area that the surf there can be unpredictable and unforgiving. It's also shallow with a sharp coral reef below, and people have been seriously injured or died there.
Jade had a long way to go if she ever wanted to surf pipeline, not only did she need to learn how to swim, how to ride waves, how to maneuver a surfboard, and of course proper surf etiquette. She also had to get over some massive fear. So you couldn't swim and you decided to go surf Pipeline. How did you start training?
Jade Darmawangsa:
I had to first step one as a beginner, have exposure therapy, go out and surf when I was uncomfortable. I'm not talking going over head high waves as a beginner because keep in mind at this time when I was training, I was still on a foam board, so I wasn't going big surf. I was just going with what I'm uncomfortable with, to me was literally two foot waves. I was uncomfortable by two foot waves. So my friend gave me good advice. At the time he just said, "Just go out and sit on the lineup. You don't have to surf, but just watch." And I did that. That was the first, I would say, phase one of training, just getting used to the ocean. I genuinely was scared of the creatures in the ocean.
Seaweed freaked me out. So it took me a while to get used to the seaweed here in California. So that was part one. It took probably three years to really get comfortable with A, reading waves and just being used to the ocean. And in that three-year time span from 2020 to 2023, I would say I was not progressing as much as I want to because I had this fear and it was debilitating. The pipeline dream honestly became smaller and smaller. The light at the end of the tunnel just got really dim at one point because I was like, "I've been surfing for three years and I suck." And that's when I decided to get help. So I went to a surf camp in Portugal.
I think that's where everything kind of changed, the Pipeline dream kind of slowly opened up again and essentially getting coaching from this really amazing surfer just changed my mindset. When I get to Portugal, he goes, "Jade, do you want to have fun this week of surfing at this camp or do you want to be a machine?" I was like, "Hmm, I like to have fun, but I love to be a machine. I love to grind." So I say I want to be a machine. The next day, immediate regret, we were surfing five hours a day, training at the gym two hours. I was like, "What did I sign up for?" But no, it was the best thing ever because I learned you have to fail a lot to get that sliver of success.
I thought surfing was like, you go out there and you catch waves, but you have to spend a hundred hours of failing to get that 10 hours of success. And I just realized, "Okay, the more I put in, I guess the more I'll get out."
Shelby Stanger:
I love that you just said you have to fail a lot. You have to fail a lot to be good at anything, but that's what keeps most people from trying these big audacious hairy goals is because you have to fail a lot and failing sucks. Talk to me more about failing. You've got a really healthy relationship with it, it sounds like.
Jade Darmawangsa:
I do? I don't know if I do.
Shelby Stanger:
Maybe it's not healthy. Maybe it's just a refreshing perspective.
Jade Darmawangsa:
I don't like failing. I will say when you start to embrace failing and see it as like, "Oh, this is a part of the journey." That's when everything changed. I think the first few days of the surf camp, I was like, "I'm actually the worst surfer at this camp." And even those students, they were saying, "Yes, I've been there, don't worry. But I know it doesn't look like it, but I've been there." So it took me a while to be like, "Huh, I'm okay. This is part of the journey." And I think feeling like you belong at the lineup is so hard too, especially when you're not from the country.
It was just so hard for me to even want to catch waves and it goes back and forth. I think my internal dialogue had to change. Before it was the first few days of the camp, I was like, "I don't belong here. I suck." And then towards the end, as I talked to my coach and got help, the dialogue changed to, "This is a part of the journey you have to fail."
Shelby Stanger:
I'm curious about the swimming part, Jade. Did you, as part of this journey, get in a pool or was all of your training in the ocean?
Jade Darmawangsa:
So phase three, I think after... So I called my surf coach Era, in Portugal's phase two, phase three is really important. I call it my breath training era. I go to this, I think it's called apnea training, so it's really resisting to take a breath and essentially we do multi-scenario situations where you might be in the ocean, so hold downs. When you fall on the wave and you wipe out, it's called a hold down and we simulate that in class.
So for example, you're on the leash in the pool, someone's pulling you and you're blindfolded, you have to take off your leash real quick, and we train that. It's the best thing ever because I thought the only way to train the scary parts of surfing is only in the ocean where you actually are scared, but in the pool you feel safer because there's a coach, there's a class.
Shelby Stanger:
This is really interesting. This kind of training wasn't around when I was learning to surf at all, and I did some deep end fitness training, which is the group that goes in the pool and swims underwater with weights and two sessions in the pool. I was the worst one there. And I had so much confidence surfing afterwards. I was like, "I'm amazing. I can surf for hours." It was weird. But what about the actual swimming part?
Jade Darmawangsa:
So thankfully guys, I've learned how to swim. I learned to swim, but to float and tread water, that was really hard. And it's funny because every 30 minutes before this two hour class, there is a literal training on how to tread water. And now guys, I'm a decent swimmer. I cannot say I'm a good swimmer though because there are people in my class that are Olympic swimmers.
Shelby Stanger:
It's interesting. I mean, when you're in southern California around all these people at the highest level in some of these training groups, you have no choice but to push yourself. But you made the conscious decision to go to these places where the waves are good. For surf camp, you could have gone anywhere. You went to Portugal where it's pretty consistent waves, it's pretty cold and pretty big. The ocean in the Atlantic feels almost raw. It's just bigger.
Jade Darmawangsa:
It does. And Portugal, getting to the lineup is literally so hard because personally, at least my experience, especially in the open ocean phase, there's nothing blocking it. It's so violent just to duck dive and find the currents. But long story short, yes, Portugal was a great place to learn, at least maybe not learn, but get over my initial fear of big waves. I got a lot of exposure therapy there.
Shelby Stanger:
It's amazing. So your journey, phase one, exposure therapy. Phase two, you go on a surf trip and you surf five hours a day and also do some stuff in the gym. Phase three, underwater training. What else? This is exciting.
Jade Darmawangsa:
This is exciting. It was interesting. I think I started getting really confident in the ocean right around my birthday this year, which is in April, and I was like, "Wow, I can duck dive and not feel like I'm dying or I can hold my breath and fall in a wave and feel like I'm cruising." I also feel like one thing that really helped me is surrounding myself with the right people.
I'm really fortunate that because of my surfing journey, I've made a lot of athlete friends and it's just so exciting to be able to say, "Hey, do you ever feel like shit after having no waves caught on the session because it was so crowded?" And they're able to be like, "Yeah, for sure." Or even just the topic of are you ever so fatigued of your sport because you've been doing so much and you're hitting a wall, you're plateauing.
Shelby Stanger:
Some people assume that going after a wild idea will be a predictable step-by-step process. "The first six months I'll do this, the next six months I'll do that." But the truth is so much of going after big goals and learning a new sport is not linear. As Jade said, she spent the first three years of surfing exposing herself to the things she was afraid of, from seaweed to wildlife. Then she went to a surf camp in Portugal, and in just a week, a lot changed. Many of her doubts and anxieties finally started to fade. When we come back, Jade talks about what happened when she finally paddled out at Pipeline. She also talks about how surfing has changed her and her next big goal.
Jade Darmawangsa took her first surf lesson at age 19. She didn't grow up near the ocean. She didn't even know how to swim, but she was determined to try this new sport. After a few surf sessions, Jade got the idea to surf Pipeline, known as one of the toughest waves in the world. For four years, she trained as hard as she could to achieve her goal. And finally in April 2024, she traveled to the North Shore of Oahu and saw Pipeline in person for the very first time. So when do you decide to actually go make this wild idea a reality, go to Pipeline and surf it?
Jade Darmawangsa:
So I actually did not even plan it. I was supposed to visit my friend who lives in Hawaii, which is amazing because she was able to show me around, "Hey, let's go to North Shore." Because it's the thing to do if you live in town. We go to the North Shore one day, this is in April of this year, and we surf this place called Chun's Reef. It's a chill, mellow place. Then the next day we come back to the North Shore, and I have a friend who calls me. He's like, "Do you just want to check out Pipeline?" And I go, "Yeah, but I don't think I'm ready to surf there." He goes, "But just check it out." So I literally didn't even bring the right wetsuit.
But anyways, when you know someone in the North Shore, they know some people too. So he introduced me to his friends and they were literally waxing their boards to go out, fins on leash on like, "Jade, do you want to come?" And I go, "Bro, what? Are you kidding me?" I don't go out yet. I bring my surfboard, I bring my stuff. I go sit on the beach just to watch a little bit. I watch the waves for maybe 20 minutes, and I noticed on the smaller sets I could do it. I'm confident I can do it. So my friend goes, "Well, if you want to try, this is the time to do it, because I know these locals, they'll take care of you." And that was the one thing I had.
I think surfing at Pipeline, if you're not with the locals, it's not possible to get a wave. But I had some homies and they're like, "Let's go Jade." So I put my leash on, I wax my board real quick, hyperventilating, and I go.
Shelby Stanger:
You're out in the lineup, you're sitting there, how many minutes go by and what is going through your head until you actually paddle and go for a wave?
Jade Darmawangsa:
I wasn't really thinking much. I was honestly trying to counteract the hyperventilating. I don't know how to explain it. You probably felt this way, but the foot was shaking, the arms were shaking, so I was just breathing.
Shelby Stanger:
Your body's screaming at you that you should not be here, you're going to die. Get out of here.
Jade Darmawangsa:
Exactly.
Shelby Stanger:
I get it.
Jade Darmawangsa:
I think, honestly, what's kind of funny is I realized when I tried to paddle in, because I was thinking, I've been here for 30 minutes just sitting. Maybe I can paddle in if I'm scared. Just to paint the picture, the day I went out, I would say it was Hawaiian people. They measure it on the back of the wave. So I would say it's equivalent to two foot Hawaiian wave, which in California I would just say probably a little bit overhead, which sounds chill but some of the bigger sets were so scary.
Shelby Stanger:
Pipeline.
Jade Darmawangsa:
It's so scary. But I was talking to the local and I was like, "I really just don't want to ride the white water in because I'm worried that I'm going to, I don't know, eat on the reef." So he's like, "All right, you just got to catch one." So I wait for probably another 15 minutes. So now 45 minutes goes by and it's starting to pour rain. My poor friends who are watching me on the beach are getting soaked. Then I go, "Okay, I should catch a wave in the next at least 30 minutes." So the rain stops, and then I don't know what happened, but there was this one left and it was slowly coming over and my friend, the local guy, he was just like, "Go, this is your wave. Go."
And when someone claims your wave for you, you have to go, because if I didn't go, it would've been over for me. No more waves or chain. So I go, "Okay." I paddle. And I think the difference between a surfing and Pipeline or surfing here is you had to paddle and then you feel the push, but you really feel the push initially. It's a huge body water.
Shelby Stanger:
It's fast.
Jade Darmawangsa:
It's fast. I kind of black out, but I just pop up and then I ride the wave. I think I try to do one turn, but all I was thinking was don't fall and then you're going to be good. You can see the reef when you're just sitting out there, you can see it. It's three foot of water. So I was just like, "Don't fall. Please don't fall." And that's it.
Shelby Stanger:
That's so awesome. How did you feel?
Jade Darmawangsa:
Oh my God. I was just happy to touch sand at that point because I was really worried about how I'm going to get back in, so I was so relieved and my friends, they acted like I won [inaudible 00:24:14] Masters. It was really funny because all the pros on the beach were like, "What is going on?" But I'm like, "You don't understand." I literally did not know how to swim three years ago.
Shelby Stanger:
Jade's video about surfing Pipeline has over 100,000 views on her YouTube. It wasn't a huge wave, but still it was a major payoff after four years of working really hard. People still come up to her and ask her if she's the Pipeline girl, something that will never cease to amaze her. Most importantly, Jade is really happy to set an example, especially for women's surfers and anyone who wants to go after a wild dream. Talk to me about the courage you've had since surfing Pipeline and how you've carried that the rest of your life. Do you think it changed you?
Jade Darmawangsa:
You know what's funny? Yes, it did change me. I think obviously surfing Pipeline, even on a smaller scale has made me feel confident. But I think what's made me feel the most confidence is every day putting in work into something and then getting the small wins. It's like the small wins leading into big wins is the actual thing that gives me the most amount of courage versus the actual win itself. If Pipeline was easy or if I didn't have to go through all the years of being scared of the ocean just as a beginner phase one. I don't think it would've given me that much courage because there was so much struggle, because there were days I didn't even pop up.
Some days I just literally got pounded for hours. It made me really appreciate those days, and like I shared earlier about John John Florence saying, "It's the good and the bad. It's what leads you to where you are." That's truly how I feel. Right now, my new goal is to get barreled at Pipeline, which... It's funny though because I'm actually scared of this one because I think there's one thing to surf it, but to actually get barreled is very scary. But I know myself, I'm going to get there eventually, but I just know even as I'm training for that, I'm going to bigger waves, I'm going to waves that I actually genuinely don't feel like I belong. I realize, "Okay, this is a part of the journey and I'm okay with it."
Shelby Stanger:
These days, surfing is a really important aspect of Jade's day-to-day life. It's not only a newfound passion, it's also an opportunity for her to get outside and play. Jade started her career extremely early and in a lot of ways she feels like playing went by the wayside. Now she's doing her best to prioritize having fun, trying new things, and getting outside. Talk to me about play. I see play as an important piece of your life.
Jade Darmawangsa:
I love to play, but I think it comes from just realizing when I was 19 years old, I didn't play. I didn't play for so long. I think your college years are very formative, and I think when I was 20, I was like, "Oh my gosh, I am not socializing with people my age. I haven't been to a party. I haven't done anything fun." So I think from there I realized I was like, "I'm going to put effort into it." You actually have to put effort to being playful, which is kind of funny. It's because as a society, we're told to make money, try to be mature, do adult things, but we don't prioritize the play.
But if you can prioritize it, it's going to make your life so much more fulfilling. So for me, what does that look like? Well, I'm very fortunate where my job is something I'm passionate about, which I know is not for everyone, but if you are someone who can allocate an hour to your hobby, an hour to the gym, I think that is how you thrive as an adult. Because unfortunately, if you don't schedule it in, it doesn't happen. So I schedule in my playtime.
Shelby Stanger:
I love that. Any advice that you could give to someone who has a big, wild idea?
Jade Darmawangsa:
I'm a step person, so I have two steps. So on the actual front of doing the crazy idea, it's going to be hard. So just realize it's hard and remind yourself that it's hard every time you struggle and you ask why me and why am I not succeeding? Because the whole point of doing a crazy idea is it's something that not a lot of people do and a lot of people will fail at. So acknowledge the risk. So many people I see kind of get the wrong impression of my Pipeline journey and say like, "Oh, she saw the school and she thinks she can do it." And it doesn't mean everyone can do it, and you're setting a wrong example because people might get hurt.
Because they think they can survive. It wasn't that simple. It was a very long journey, but it was well worth it. So that's the first thing. Just remind yourself hard, long journey, but worth it. And then the second thing is the failing is a part of it and you might get hurt, and I think that's the thing that really is setting me back. It's like I really am scared to get hurt or fail, and I think I realized every time I try a little failure, it builds my confidence a bit more because I realize it's not that bad.
Shelby Stanger:
Failing is an essential part of going after wild ideas. It teaches us about our strengths and weaknesses, builds resilience and helps us overcome our next challenge. If you want to see the video about Jade's surfing journey and the moment she surfed pipeline, we'll link it in the show notes. You can find more of Jade's content on YouTube at Jade Darmawangsa. That's J-A-D-E-D-A-R-M-A-W-A-N-G-S-A. You can also find her on Instagram and TikTok with that same handle.
Wild Ideas Worth Living is part of the REI podcast network. It's hosted by me, Shelby Stanger, produced by Annie Fassler, Sylvia Thomas and Sam Peers Nitzberg of Puddle Creative. Our senior producers are Jenny Barber and Hannah Boyd. Our executive producers are Paolo Mottola and Joe Crosby. As always, we love it when you follow the show, take time to rate it and write a review wherever you listen. And remember, some of the best adventures happen when you follow your wildest ideas.