Earlier this summer, host Shelby Stanger recorded a live episode of Wild Ideas Worth Living with Alex Honnold at the Outside Festival in Denver, Colorado. Alex is one of the most well-known climbers in the world, best known for his free solo climb of El Capitan— the 3,000-foot vertical wall of granite in Yosemite National Park. In this conversation, Shelby talks to Alex about the projects he’s chasing now, how parenthood has shifted his relationship with adventure, and what his approach to free soloing looks like today.
Earlier this summer, host Shelby Stanger recorded a live episode of Wild Ideas Worth Living with Alex Honnold at the Outside Festival in Denver, Colorado. Alex is one of the most well-known climbers in the world, best known for his free solo climb of El Capitan— the 3,000-foot vertical wall of granite in Yosemite National Park.
In this conversation, Shelby talks to Alex about the projects he’s chasing now, how parenthood has shifted his relationship with adventure, and what his approach to free soloing looks like today.
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Alex Honnold:
One of the things I've really gained from climbing is that climbing is scary and you're scared climbing all the time. I'm scared climbing all the time. And so I think that having that exposure to fear all the time helps you to parse out when it really matters or not, and I think that's an important life skill, basically.
Shelby Stanger:
Alex Honnold is one of the most well-known climbers in the world, best known for his free solo climb of El Capitan, the 3000-foot vertical wall of granite in Yosemite National Park. In June of 2017, Alex completed the climb in just under four hours with no ropes, no harness, and no safety net. It was just him, the rock, and an incredible amount of focus.
Before he made that ascent in 2017, most people thought free soloing El Cap just wasn't possible. But Alex changed that. He redefined what humans are capable of, and in the process became one of the most recognized athletes in the world. Earlier this summer, we recorded a live episode of Wild Ideas Worth Living with Alex at the Outside Festival in Denver, Colorado. This wasn't my first time interviewing Alex. We actually spoke in 2018. His film Free Solo wasn't out yet, so it was before all the attention and awards. The movie directed by Jimmy Chin and Chai Vasarhelyi went on to win an Oscar, and Alex's life changed in a big way. Since then, he's gone after many more climbing projects, grown the Honnold Foundation to support solar energy projects, gotten married and become a father.
I'm Shelby Stanger, and this is Wild Ideas Worth Living, an REI Co-op Studios production presented by Capital One and the REI Co-op MasterCard. Here's our live conversation recorded in front of a packed crowd at the Outside Festival.
All right, Denver, we are so excited to be here. A climber named Emily Harrington told me that climbing with Alex is like playing basketball with Michael Jordan. And interviewing him is even better because he makes you feel so comfortable. He just pointed out some guy changing behind us in the middle of the street, and now I feel relaxed.
Alex Honnold:
He is a very handsome man.
Shelby Stanger:
He's very handsome.
Alex Honnold:
It's insane.
Shelby Stanger:
So we're excited to be here. On the podcast we talk about wild ideas. Those are ideas that scare you, will keep you up at night, and that if you pursue them along the way, you're probably going to want to turn back and be scared again. But if you keep going, your life will never be the same again. And one wild idea often leads to another and another and your life, wild idea, free solo El Cap, and then you get an Oscar and it just keeps going and going and spreading like wildfire.
Alex Honnold:
Most ideas end that way. You guys should try it.
Shelby Stanger:
Yeah. Most people here know you from your big moment of free soloing El Cap. When was the very first time you had the wild idea to do it? Did it hit you a bolt of lightning, or was it kind of a slow burn and it just came to you?
Alex Honnold:
No, it was kind of a natural progression. I'd soloed a few things in Yosemite, I free soloed Half Dome, which is a 2000-foot wall, kind of similar to El Cap, for those that don't know. And so after I free soloed, half Dome was kind of like LCAP is the next obvious thing, but it actually wound up taking me, I guess eight more years before I actually did the free solo. It was one of those things where it was like, "I'm going to do that next season." And then the next season I drove in Yosemite and looked at the wall. I was like, "I'm definitely not doing that." It was totally insane. And so that process repeated itself for many seasons until eventually I've sort of put the effort in and started actually working on it. But it was kind of a dream on the back burner for many years.
Shelby Stanger:
I love that. And how did you know you were ready? You'd put in a lot of work. Just talk to me a little bit about some of the things that went into it, because it wasn't like, "Oh yeah, just 10 years and then I did it."
Alex Honnold:
Yeah, no, which part do you even want to focus on? Because kind of the whole thing. There's the six years, I guess, where I consistently went to Yosemite, looked at the wall and thought, "That's impossible," and then didn't actually try to work on the free solo at all. But during those six years, I still worked on tons of other projects and I free soloed other walls and things that were smaller but harder in some ways, or whatever, the things that pushed me in different ways. And I went on expeditions to different parts of the world and I still learned quite a lot as a climber. And so for those six years is not as if I was directly working on the free solo of El Cap, but I was definitely broadening myself as a rock climber and sort of building the skills. Now, in retrospect, I can see that I was building the skills required to eventually get there.
So then eventually the mental... I sort of made a little... Flipped a switch, so to speak. I was like, "You know what? I think I maybe can do this. I need to actually start putting the work in directly to do this project." And just by happy coincidence, that's when the filmmakers behind the film Free Solo approached me about doing a feature documentary. I basically just decided that I was going to start putting the effort in to do the actual climb. And so I was like, "Oh, perfect timing. Now I've got a built-in team, some people to help me with this whole process." Because it's a tremendous amount of effort to work on a wall like that. For those that don't know, there's a lot of hiking ropes to the summit and rappelling down and hauling the ropes back out. And it's just a lot of toil. And I was like, "Having a team there will make this quite a bit easier." And so then I spent two years working on the actual climb. And so when you ask about what the preparation was, you're kind of like, "Well, what's eight years of broadening and pushing?" And then two years of direct training on the actual route. I mean, it's just a long journey. Not every big idea should take that long, hopefully.
Shelby Stanger:
But the mindset, the mindset part where you're like, "Okay, now I'm going to do that." Can you just walk me a little bit through when that switched, when you're like, "I'm going to go all in"?
Alex Honnold:
Yeah, so I guess the two years that I was working on the climb, I mean I started deciding that I was going to put in all the effort and find out if it was possible, know if it would ever feel possible or not, but I realized that it was never going to look easy. That was kind of the thing, is that for years I've been driving in Yosemite hoping that some season I would look up at the wall and think, "Now it looks easy. I'm going to do that this year." And I kind of realized that it was just never going to look easy, and it was never going to be casual. And so I was like, "I'm going to have to put in all the prep work and the training and the time, everything without knowing whether or not I can do it, and just find out."
And so it is not as if I just... I don't know, when you ask what was the moment, I'm like, "Well, there wasn't really a moment." I just sort of acted as if I was going to do it eventually and did all the prep work and kept working as if I was going to do it. But I didn't really know right up until kind of near the end. I mean, I don't know, it is a classic "fake it till you make it" kind of thing.
Shelby Stanger:
Yeah, I like it.
Alex Honnold:
Where you're like, "Well, I don't know if I can do it, but I'm just going to do everything as if I'm going to do it." And then by the time I got to the point where I had finished all the preparation, done everything I need to do, I was like, "Well, of course I'm going to do it, because I'm incredibly well-prepared for conditions are perfect, everything is lined up." And so then it feels like an inevitability where it's like, obviously I will do this, because I've just spent years working towards it. But while you're working towards it, you're like, "Well, who knows?"
Shelby Stanger:
But I think what's so important is you said it's never easy. It's never going to look easy. Eventually you got to prepare as much as possible, and then you got to go do it.
Alex Honnold:
Yeah. By definition, if you're doing something that you've never done before, and especially if it's something that's never been done full stop, even if you believe you can do it, you're sort of like, you don't know until you actually do it.
Shelby Stanger:
It's true.
Alex Honnold:
I know it's always going to be a little scary and a little nerve wracking and a little...
Shelby Stanger:
Just like we've never done a live podcast before, so this is a big experiment right here.
Alex Honnold:
And we are gripped, this is full on.
Shelby Stanger:
So you free soloed El Cap. It was a huge moment. You're the man. No one in the world has ever done anything like it. It was incredible. A few months later you won the Oscar. Life got pretty wild. Prince William was in the mix. There was some crazy stuff. Will you just give us a quick highlight of some of the wild stuff that happened, post-Oscar?
Alex Honnold:
Well, yeah. So I called it my deployment to Hollywood, because when the film came out, I did six months basically of nonstop events promoting the film. And the whole thing kind of snowballed, where it's a documentary about rock climbing. So it started with this limited release in a handful of theaters, places like Boulder and Denver, honestly, just because you know that you'll be able to fill a theater there. And then as the film did well, it rolled out more broadly and more people saw it and it wound up taking off way more than any of us ever could have guessed or hoped. It wound up being a whole thing. But so it was six months of just nonstop events. And I was like... It's pretty crazy. And then in some ways it actually felt a little bit like athletic training, because the events ramped in intensity for the whole time. You start with the Audio Guild Society Awards and you're like, "Who cares about the Audio Guild Society?" You're like, "Whatever." And then you go to the BAFTAs, which is the British Academy Awards, and you're like, "Oh, we just met Prince William." You're like, "That seems a little fancier." And then eventually-
Shelby Stanger:
Was it cool?
Alex Honnold:
Yeah, honestly, it was insane.
Shelby Stanger:
Yeah, I'm sure.
Alex Honnold:
I was like, "Oh, you could see how royalty dominated Europe for thousands of years," because he had such a regal bearing. I was like, "Wow, he's an incredible..." I was like, "I would follow him into battle. I would ride a horse behind him." It was amazing, actually. And anyway, and then it culminates in the Oscars, which is total insane pageantry and just complete whatever. And so it honestly felt like training for an event where you're like, "Oh, I'm doing longer and longer runs, and then I'm doing my marathon, I'm peaking, and then now I'm going to bed rest for a while." And that's basically what happened after the Oscars, is we went to the Oscars, freaking won, we're like, "This is crazy." And then you collapse in a heap and you're like, "I'm so tired."
Shelby Stanger:
I want to talk about that, because most adventurers will do this huge adventure. They'll hike the Pacific Crest Trail or the Appalachian Trail or do a big Everest, and then afterwards there's this kind of post-adventure blues. And when I talked to you, you didn't really have that, which I thought was pretty amazing, because you just did the biggest thing you've always wanted to do, and you didn't really have this "Oh, great. What now?" moment, which I think is really important because you had a tactic that you didn't even really plan, but you did.
Alex Honnold:
Yeah, I mean, that's not to say that I've never had post-goal blues, because I think part of the whole fun of having a project, having a big idea, having something to work on, is that it gives you direction and purpose and something to get out of bed and something to train for and something to be psyched for.
And so certainly throughout the year I have moments where it's like I finished some big project or I accomplished some climb that I'm excited about. And then you're left with a month of like, "What do I do with myself now? I need a new project, I need a new goal, I need something."
But we were talking specifically about the free solo of El Cap, and whether or not I had some kind of big come-down post free soloing El Cap. And in that case I didn't because part of the strategy for free soloing El Cap was that... So I knew that the free soloing El Cap is largely a mental challenge. It's like the psychological aspect is physically... I've climbed El Cap many times with a rope. I've climbed it without falling off with a rope. So I knew that I could physically climb El Cap. I mean, that's hard, obviously, but that's not the cutting-edge part. The doing it without the rope part is the part that makes it really hard. And that's basically a mental challenge.
Shelby Stanger:
No big deal.
Alex Honnold:
Well, and so I also knew that if I free soloed El Cap, it'd be the biggest thing I'd ever do. I knew it'd be big, and I knew I'd be super proud of it, but I didn't want to make it bigger than it needed to be, because I knew that it was already predominantly a mental challenge. And so by putting it on a pedestal, making it feel like this is the biggest thing of your life, this is the craziest climb we ever do, this means so much that almost makes it too big and more of a mental challenge. And so I felt like for me, part of the process was to actually make it more part of my normal year. And so I was looking at my Yosemite seasons as training for other expeditions that I was doing throughout the year. So right after Yosemite, I went to Alaska to climb some other big mountains, and I was looking at Alaska as training for an expedition I did to Antarctica later that winter.
And so I was kind of like, "Whether I succeed or not in Yosemite this season, either way I'm training for Alaska, Alaska is preparation for Antarctica, I'm climbing all these different walls, it's all part of the normal cycle of being a professional climber." It's kind of like it takes a lot of the mental stress off achieving this big historic personal first, whatever you want to call it. It's kind of like, "Oh, I'm just training in the valley. And I have a goal while I'm in the valley, but really it's all just practice for Alaska." And so I think that that whole strategy kept me from experiencing the same kind of come down that you're talking about. It wasn't like I'm training for the Olympics, I either win or lose, but either way, I'm just done afterward. It was kind of like, "Well, literally the next week I was in Alaska climbing other big walls with friends." I was kind of like, "Well, that's..."
Shelby Stanger:
So the moral of the story is when you have a wild idea, have a couple more wild ideas, you just have to keep going and going and going. It's awesome. No, it is good advice though.
Alex Honnold:
Yeah, no, I mean, honestly... And I knew that what I was doing in Alaska was not, didn't really matter. We climbed a couple of new routes that were kind of stupid. No one would ever climb again.
Shelby Stanger:
No big deal.
Alex Honnold:
The things we did in Antarctica, we were cooler and I'm proud of those, and it was a great expedition, but again, it's trivial compared to free-soloing El Cap. But the key for me was to look past the one goal. It is not as if that's my end point and my life will end when I do this. I was kind of like, "Oh, this is my goal. But I've got a whole year laid out ahead of that."
And then, I mean specifically with free-soloing El Cap, the film came out the next year. They do a year of post-production, which is pretty normal. Then the whole crazy six month deployment to Hollywood, which was a whole experience. And so then by the time that's wrapped up, you're kind of like, "Well, it's been a couple of years, I've been doing stuff nonstop." And you're just like, "Life is moving on. It's time to set new goals and come up with new ideas."
Shelby Stanger:
Well, I want to talk about one of those next ideas, which you ended up getting married. You have two daughters, June and Alice. I think we have a picture of your family somewhere up here, but I'm really curious, what's it like being a dad?
Alex Honnold:
That's great. I suspect half the audience probably probably knows it. Yeah, it's amazing. No, I mean it was always... Actually, so bringing it back to free-soloing El Cap and whatever. I mean, part of the reason that I felt some pressure to do some of those climbing goals is that I knew that I wanted to have a family at some point. I didn't want to live in my van by myself and my entire life. I knew that eventually I'd lived in a house and have a family.
Shelby Stanger:
But do you sometimes miss it?
Alex Honnold:
Oh yeah, I know. I mean, it's awesome. I love living in the van.
Shelby Stanger:
I'm teasing.
Alex Honnold:
Well, I mean, of course. But on the other hand, I've chosen to have a family. I just don't want to be 65 years old living in my van by myself.
Shelby Stanger:
I get it.
Alex Honnold:
That's sad. And with all due respect to the eight people here who are 65 living in their van by themselves.
Shelby Stanger:
There's probably a couple of people here who live in a van and they're 65. So I was like, "Harsh job, but it's okay."
Alex Honnold:
I have many friends who are still on that exact same path, and I'm like, "You know what? Power to you. But that's not ever the future that I saw for myself. I want to have a family. I want to have grandkids someday. I want to do the whole thing."
But I knew that some of the goals that I had for climbing made sense to do pre-family, to some extent, because they're just so all encompassing that it makes sense to just go all in on some of the climbing projects before you have little kids. And now that I have little kids, I'm like, "Thank goodness I did," because it turns out having little kids is a whole journey of itself.
Shelby Stanger:
What are some of the funniest things they recently said? Oh, there they are.
Alex Honnold:
Oh, there they are.
Shelby Stanger:
Beautiful. Your kids are gorgeous. Okay, so June and Alice, I mean, they have to say some funny things. You're their dad. Anything that surprised you recently or they said that you were just like, "Oh my God"?
Alex Honnold:
So I don't know, my three-year-old, the bigger one... So this photo is maybe taken a year ago, so now they're quite a bit... I mean, they changed so quickly at this age. So the bigger one, I mean, she basically sees me packing my bag nonstop because I'm still climbing outside probably four days a week or something. And so almost every day she's seen me unpacking a backpack, repacking a backpack, packing snacks, doing a thing. And she doesn't know anything about rock climbing yet, per se. I mean, she sees us training in the home gym and going outside and going bouldering and things, but she doesn't know what that really means. So I was just telling her... I just tell them all the time, "I'm going mountain climbing, we're going to the mountains. We're climbing and climbing mountains." And so she's always like, "I want to go mountain climbing," mostly because she loves eating snacks. She loves little bars and things, and so any excuse for her to eat a bar and go to the mountains.
Shelby Stanger:
I was going to ask you, tactics to get your kids outside, but that's kind of it.
Alex Honnold:
It's all about snacks, snacks.
Shelby Stanger:
It's all about snacks.
Alex Honnold:
Which is funny though because it makes you realize that so much of being an adult outdoors is also about eating snacks. It's basically all what I call all technical snacks. All bars and energy products and all that are basically candy. It's like adult candy that you get to eat when you're exercising. And I'm kind of like, "Oh, I love exercising, probably because I love candy."
Shelby Stanger:
If I go snowboarding, I literally stop every run and get hot chocolate.
Alex Honnold:
Yeah, exactly.
Shelby Stanger:
It's the worst.
Alex Honnold:
Exactly. I'm sort of like... Yeah, you see it in the kids and you're like, "Oh, you shouldn't eat all that candy." And then you're like, "Actually, wait. That's literally all I do, and I do this all the time outside so much."
Shelby Stanger:
So I think a lot of people are wondering, are you still soloing now that you're a family man, you've got kids?
Alex Honnold:
Yeah. Yeah, I am. Not as intense, not as hardcore maybe, though I just did a film project a couple of months ago. That was the first hard thing that I've done in a while. Yeah, definitely spending less time doing easy soloing. I'm just at home a lot more. I think that the biggest difference with having kids is that I try to be at home for basically wake up in bedtime every day. And so I'm just there for family meals, and I'm just at home a lot more. And so the nature of my adventures have kind of shifted in time where I'm sort of like, "Oh, I can go adventuring from nine to five during the day."
I was like... Actually, I haven't even thought about it. But now I'm a professional climber in the real sense of the word, where I work in nine to five, but I try to climb outside in those tight hours. I freaking hammer it back down the mountain to make it back before childcare goes home. Things like that where you're like, "Oh, the nanny leaves in an hour?" You're like, "Oh no, I have 2000 feet of vert to just hammer down." The crag that I'm climbing at currently is a 2000-foot descent to get back down to the road. And I've it PR'd twice in the last two weeks setting personal records because I'm like, "Oh, the nanny leaves at five, I am screwed."
Shelby Stanger:
You have a recent story where you're out in your neighborhood climbing, and something kind of happened, and your phone sort of...
Alex Honnold:
Yeah, that was the soloing misadventure from two weeks ago or something.
Shelby Stanger:
Can you just tell that story because it's a really great story?
Alex Honnold:
Well, or it's a really sad story. My phone died in a tragic mountain accident. Basically, I went out soloing on something that I thought was kind of easy, and it would be kind of fun. It was just an angstful afternoon scramble. I was like, "Oh, I'll just go do a thing." But it was like 50-mile-an-hour winds and it turns out-
Shelby Stanger:
And how high up were you?
Alex Honnold:
... Well, the route was like 1500 feet or so, and maybe I was halfway up this wall, and it was the kind of thing where when you hike into the canyon, it's quite windy, but it's kind of warm, so you're like, "Oh, this is nice. It feels good." Anyway, on the wall though, it turns out it was insanely windy, and it turned out it was untenable, and I basically had to bail because it was too windy. But then also my phone blew out of my pocket. I mean, I was shirtless, but my shorts were billowing up like the Michelin man, and basically, and my chalk bag had flipped, and everything's flying everywhere, and the chalk in my eyes and my backpack straps are slapping me nonstop. You're like, "Ahh..." I was like, "I can't see, and I can't..." You're getting buffeted, pushed by wind back and forth. And I was like, "This is kind of intense."
Anyway, but my phone was also in my car key, and I was all alone in the middle of nowhere, and I was kind of like, "Oh, now I'm screwed, because it was afternoon." I was kind of like, "Even if I make it to the top, then I have to circle back around the mountain to get back to the base to find my phone, because I need the key." Otherwise, I'd have to just quest back to the highway and try to hitchhike home, or... Basically all the options are really bad. And I was like, I'm so hosed. And so I wound up down climbing the whole thing, and I found the phone, even though it was totally broken and shattered, it still worked to unlock my car, so I managed to drive home.
Shelby Stanger:
Okay. I'm not a rock climber, but down climbing sounds... Yeah, good job, Alex.
Alex Honnold:
Actually, the real story, the crux of the thing is 10-D, like 180-foot 10-D pitch for anyone that rock climbs. And I'd climbed 175 feet of the pitch, and I was basically right below the anchor, and I couldn't really do the last five feet. It was just too crazy windy, and I couldn't. It was thin lie backing up a thing, and I was past the crux already, but it was just too intense. And I wound up having to down climb the whole crux and the whole thing, and I was like, "Oh..." It was all a botch. But that's the kind of thing that you try to avoid.
Shelby Stanger:
This might be a silly question to all your rock climbers, but is down climbing solo even scarier than going up?
Alex Honnold:
Not if you're well practiced.
Shelby Stanger:
It looks terrifying. I don't like going down anything once I've climbed up it.
Alex Honnold:
Yeah. Well, the fundamentals of it are that you're assisted by gravity, so it's easier. Think of it that way. It is technically easier to go down than up, think of it that way. But on the other hand, it's harder to see your feet. It's harder to see the holds. And also it's just, I don't know... I practiced a lot of down climbing. I've had a lot of ups and downs in my life with going up things down, climbing things, bailing off things. And so I think I've done more down climbing than anybody ever, just because I'm those people don't have an opportunity to down climb that much. If you practice it, it's not that crazy.
Shelby Stanger:
Okay. I probably won't, but I like that idea. But how has becoming a parent changed your relationship with risk?
Alex Honnold:
Well, it's hard to follow up this harrowing story of misadventure with this journey.
Shelby Stanger:
I know, but I love that you're doing this and I love, you're still getting after it, but your kids might get to the age where they're like, "Dad, can you just not?" Or I don't know.
Alex Honnold:
Yeah. And then maybe I'd be like, if you ask me not to, maybe I wouldn't. But the whole point is that I'm trying to do things that feel safe, for the most part. I mean, this whole thing went kind of sideways and you're kind of like, "Well, sometimes you make mistakes like that, and it doesn't work out." But in general, I'm doing way less easy solo. I'm just doing more time training in my garage, going sport climbing, just doing things close to the house, keeping the hours tighter, being with the kids more. I don't know. But then, yeah, I was saying, I did a film thing couple months ago and I was like, "God, I just love climbing walls, though. It's so great."
Shelby Stanger:
Tell us about... You recently went to Sedona and did some climbing up there. It looked amazing.
Alex Honnold:
I'm like, what are you getting at?
Shelby Stanger:
What'd you do?
Alex Honnold:
Well, actually, I mean-
Shelby Stanger:
Well, there was one thing I couldn't ask you about. So I wanted ask you about Sedona.
Alex Honnold:
Oh, because the other thing is... Yeah, she asked me about this climb. I'm talking about this film project, and I was like, "Well, it's NDA, so I'm not really supposed to talk about it, but who cares?"
Shelby Stanger:
We talked about it.
Alex Honnold:
There's a camera, we talk about it anyways. Yeah, no, it is fine. But no, Sedona is a family trip. We did a two-week family trip to Sedona and climbed nonstop. To me, that's honestly the ultimate way of balancing family with climbing is that we went with the whole family, got every beat, did a nice thing, literally climbed every day happy with the kids in a new place, pushing the stroll around. It was just so wonderful and new rock, and we were so psyched. Yeah, I did a lot of climbs that I was very happy about.
Shelby Stanger:
How does it work with you and Sanni when you take the kids climbing? How do you guys work as a team so you can all climb?
Alex Honnold:
Oh, we kind of alternate or in this case, we brought my in-laws. My wife's parents climb as well, but they're old and pretty casual. And so it's an easy way. So we're like, we brought a nanny who was with us for a bit. And then my main climbing partner is also a lifelong friend. Josh basically lives in his van, but he's great with the kids.
Shelby Stanger:
There's definitely van lifers here.
Alex Honnold:
Yeah, I'm sure there must be, but they're not as scrappy as Josh, I bet. He's really scrappy, but he's one of my longest climbing friends. And so I mean, I guess the long and short is that we try to assemble the right community around us where it's between the in-laws, the nanny, my friend who's really good with kids, and then all of us sort of cycling around with different partners and taking turns and doing all the things, and everybody gets to climb as much as they need.
Shelby Stanger:
I love that. So you've been taking your family on climbs, but I've also seen you in a lot of movies where you're helping someone else with a big goal. You did something with Tommy. I just watched Emily Harrington's movie Girl Climber, which is actually here at the Outside Festival where she free climbs Golden Gate and she's one of three people to do it. And you're coaching her and you're funny in the right times, but you're also pushing her in a way that no one else can push you, because you're also the only guy who's really done it. And so she respects you. But I'm curious how you enjoy helping others succeed. I mean. And you also took your mom on El Cap, which is so cool.
Alex Honnold:
Yeah, I definitely would never call myself a mentor of any kind. I would say that I try to be a good friend and good partner and help people do things that they're trying to do. I mean, I think, I'm sure everybody here has experienced that with crewing for a race or helping a friend in a long run or things like that. Sometimes... I have lots of my own personal athletic goals and I'm working towards my own things a lot, but every once in a while you're kind of like, "It's fun to support your friends. It's fun to take turns on things. It's like it's nice to feel like the pressure's on somebody else and you're just out supporting them having a nice day." And you're like, "Today is their day to succeed, and I'm just here to have fun and enjoy the mountains."
It's like I kind of love doing that, but also I think it kind of naturally happens as you get older, a little bit i, Some of it mean with El Cap, like with Emily climbing El Cap, I've spent so many days on El Cap, it's just easy for me to help. I'm kind of like, I know where to go for the different things, and I know how to do the rappelling and how to get into the positions, and I just spend a lot of time out there. And so it's easy to help other people with like, "Oh, here's how you do it. Let's go do it together."
Shelby Stanger:
But you're also really funny while you're doing it. I'm curious how you use humor in these high-stakes moments, because there are some times where it's a little precarious and you just make this totally funny joke. Do you mean to, or is it just you?
Alex Honnold:
Why would... Actually, are they precarious moments? I mean, the whole thing is that I think, has anyone seen Girl Climber? I guess a few people were at Mountain Film in Telluride, but hopefully people get the opportunity to see it. It's pretty cool. It's amazing. It's the anti-Free Solo in a lot of ways.
Shelby Stanger:
It's great. But you talk about humor and how you use humor... Is it an intentional tactic or is it just part of the Alex Honnold way?
Alex Honnold:
It's not an intentional tactic, it's just that you're legitimately out having a good time doing anything that you love to do. And so situations... Basically all of climbing is you're accepting an inherent level of risk. It is always a little bit sketchy, but you don't have to make it seem sketchier than it actually is. This kind goes back to the same mental games around free-selling El Cap. And I knew that it'd be a big deal. I don't need to make an even bigger big deal by piling on the pressure.
And so I think that if you're up climbing El Cap with your friend and you have ropes and you have gear, it's like you know that there's some risk in that. Climbing always carries some risk. You could pull a rock, it could cut the rope, everybody could die. There's small chances that things could go wrong, but you've accepted those types of risks. You've minimized them best you can. You know what you're doing, and so you may as well have a good time doing it. And so I think that's kind of the thing, is I think what you might look as like, oh, they're up there cracking jokes, and you're kind of like, "Why else shouldn't you be cracking jokes all the time anyway? You're having fun with your friends."
Shelby Stanger:
Always. You should always be cracking jokes. Yeah. Last night someone asked me to ask him the biggest muscle you train regularly.
Alex Honnold:
She asked me, "What is the largest muscle that you regularly train?" And I was like, "What do you mean by that?" And I was like...
Shelby Stanger:
Thank you, Alex. You saved me on that one. I turned as red as the fake campfire in front of me, just so you know. But I think Alex really does bring out the best in people, and empathy, that seems to be a muscle that you've really built over the years.
Alex Honnold:
I was like, no one has ever called me empathetic.
Shelby Stanger:
I know, but you have become empathetic. I think everybody here is scared of something, but you offer really great advice on fear, and it'd be great if you just wanted to get on your soapbox about fear and some tactics on dealing with fear.
Alex Honnold:
Yeah, sure. People ask about fear all the time, and it's such a broad subject, and I feel like there are a lot of different places we can go with this. Part of it is just that when was the last time you were really afraid? And how often are you afraid? And how often do you have to determine whether or not your fear is well-founded or just general anxiety? Does your fear actually matter? Should you act on it or not? Something that we're talking about is we all experience hunger somewhat regularly... Actually, maybe not. We live in a very affluent country, but in general, you feel hunger pangs from time to time and you're kind of like, "Oh, I'm hungry, but I'm just going to sit on that, set it aside, and I'll eat when it makes sense because I'm going to meet my friends later and we'll eat then."
And I feel like fear is the same kind of physiological signal that your body is receiving. It's your body telling you something, in the same way that hunger... I don't know, sunburn, I don't know. It's like your body is sending you signals and you can heed those signals or not. You just have to learn how to differentiate when they matter or not, in the same way that sometimes hunger is super important, sometimes it isn't.
And so I think one of the things I've really gained from climbing, is that climbing's scary, and you're scared climbing all the time. I'm scared climbing all the time. And on a low level, a lot of the time you ignore it. But even sport climbing, you get above your bolt and you're like, "It's kind of scary. I don't want to just fall off right now." And there are often moments of like, "Oh, what if this hole breaks and I pitch backward off this, even though I have a rope? And it's probably safe, it's probably fine," but you don't know for sure. And so you're always a little bit scared.
And because there always are real consequences to climbing, you always should be a little bit scared because if your player isn't paying attention, you could die. And so I think that having that exposure to fear all the time helps you to parse out when it really matters or not. And I think that's an important life skill, basically. There are a lot of things like public speaking. I used to be terrified of public speaking. I was a very shy child, afraid of everything, afraid of anything in public. But ultimately you're like, "Who cares?" It's like you're not going to get hurt. The Free Solo tour really taught me that because it's six months of just nonstop events. I was kind of like, ultimately, even if you suck, you're still going home to your friends and family and they don't care. So it's like, it's fine. I'm not going to remember anyway. It's like, "Is this one of those times? Am I sucking?"
Shelby Stanger:
No, you're doing great. I think you've also told me personal advice. Fear is just the unknown, and sometimes you just have to do the thing that you're scared of and keep doing it. Once you've even suggested like, "Hey, if you're going somewhere cold, train in the meat locker." I was like, "Whoa, cool. Okay."
Alex Honnold:
I don't think I said that.
Shelby Stanger:
I know you don't remember. I think you said that. I'm going to pull up the podcast.
Alex Honnold:
She's pulled out these weird quotes. Yeah, we've done some interviews before and I'm like-
Shelby Stanger:
We've done a couple.
Alex Honnold:
... I swear I've never said any of these quotes.
Shelby Stanger:
I really like that and I'm running with it. I'm curious just about daily Alex. How you stay motivated and how you get after you've got kids, you've got parents who are like, what are your non-negotiables that you have to do every week? How often do you have to get out to climb or go on an adventure to just stay stoked?
Alex Honnold:
I generally climb four or five days a week. I try to climb outside say three or four days a week.
Shelby Stanger:
But is that indoor, outdoor, in your gym? What does that look like?
Alex Honnold:
Ideally, I'm climbing outdoors at least three or four days a week, though we've just had two small babies. And so naturally the first several months of having a baby, I was doing more time in the garage and just at home a lot more and fewer adventures.
Shelby Stanger:
And the garage is a pretty decent...
Alex Honnold:
It's a nice home climbing gym. Yeah.
Shelby Stanger:
A nice home climbing gym. Like legit?
Alex Honnold:
Like a nice home climbing gym.
Shelby Stanger:
Like a nice one. It's not an average climbing wall, a couple of holes out there.
Alex Honnold:
Well, it's only because I live somewhere that doesn't have a great commercial gym, and we live kind of out of town a little bit. And so it just makes sense to have a nice home thing, honestly, because all our friends come to use the home gym that way. And so then you get to see all your friends without having to ...because with two babies, you're kind of like, "We're just not socializing that much." So it's nice to have the friends come to you.
Shelby Stanger:
So a couple of weekly... You don't go... And then how about... One big trip a year? Or how many big wild ideas a year?
Alex Honnold:
I think probably average over my 18-year career as a professional climber, whatever that means, for all the years I've been a sponsored climber, I've probably been averaging one big expedition a year.
Shelby Stanger:
I love that.
Alex Honnold:
One big trip to big mountains or Alpine things. Something like Antarctica or somewhere where it's like a full-on expedition-expedition where you're living in a tent for a month or more. So I think one thing like that a year is enough to sort of scratch the itch. I like that stuff and I find it inspiring and it's great to see the greater ranges and to travel and whatever, but I don't like it enough to do it more than once a year, because I think ultimately I love rock climbing and most of those types of trips, you spend too much time sitting in the rain and the tent and not enough time rock climbing.
Shelby Stanger:
Do you have any wild ideas on the horizon for this coming year?
Alex Honnold:
Well, it depends on how you define a wild idea. I mean, I have a whole list of climbing goals that I'm interested in. I mean, for me, the challenge-
Shelby Stanger:
Tell us a few, just a few of them that you can.
Alex Honnold:
I don't know. I mean... But they're good ideas. I think one of the real challenges of being a professional climber is coming up with good ideas like that. It's coming up with things that haven't been done, things that they suit you well, things that are interesting. And so, I don't know, I thought up a pretty cool link up in Yosemite that that's basically all the things in Yosemite, which I think would be fun.
Shelby Stanger:
All the things in Yosemite, that sounds pretty badass. Yeah, I agree with that.
Alex Honnold:
We'll see. And then there's some link up stuff around the house. But basically it's just, I think for me, the challenge is always that you can think of these cool ideas and then you're kind of like, "Well, how does that fit in my overall year? Will I be fit for that kind of thing? Do I have the time to train for that specific kind of thing? Do I want to spend that much time working on that kind of a goal?" And so at any given time, I have a buffet of different ideas and goals. And then the challenge is to make them all fit together in a way that works, because I like rock climbing, and so I'm kind of like, "Okay, if I want to be able to climb my hardest grades, that's at the opposite end of the spectrum from enchaining every mountain in a certain place" or something. Because that's more like a running type of goal or an easy soloing goal.
Anyway. So trying to make all your goals work together so that you can do one thing that gets you better for the next thing, which gets you better for the next thing. And then you peak with the last thing that you're all excited about. I don't know mean it is hard to structure the year that way. And especially for me with family and life obligations, things like that as well. You're sort of like, "Well, I really want to do this thing, but it's only good in September, October, and I know that I'm going to be traveling for work then anyway, and my family's going to be doing something. My wife is traveling for work." So then you're kind of like, "Well, that's not actually a great time to pursue that goal. That's going to take a ton of effort. Let's focus on a different thing instead."
Shelby Stanger:
And then in your free time when you're not doing these wild ideas, what are some of the things you like to do? I read crossword puzzles.
Alex Honnold:
Yeah, I do.
Shelby Stanger:
You're pretty good at them?
Alex Honnold:
I've gotten better. I do the crossword every day. I really like it.
Shelby Stanger:
Does it every single day and completes it. That's amazing.
Alex Honnold:
Well, I think compared to somebody who actually is into crosswords, I'm very, very bad. But compared to somebody that's never done a crossword, I'm very good.
Shelby Stanger:
I want to switch gears really quickly and talk about the Honnold Foundation. Why did you start it? What's your mission right now? What are you excited about right now?
Alex Honnold:
Yeah, cool. So the Honnold Foundation, I think I started in 2012, but we support community solar projects around the world. So since 2012 or so, I've been given a third of my income away, and now we receive tons of money from donations.
Shelby Stanger:
A third of your income away. That's awesome. It's not a lot of people in our industry doing that. Alex, hold on.
Alex Honnold:
Actually, I think that's one of the things about having lived in my van for so long and loving rock climbing, is that it's always been easy for me to give quite a bit to charity like that because I'm kind of like, "I'm doing exactly what I love to do. I'm spending my time the way I want to be spending my time. And the rest, you don't really need the rest." So I don't know, it makes life very simple in a lot of ways. I'm like, "There's nothing that I need to be... I'm never going to buy a yacht. I don't need a yacht."
Shelby Stanger:
Really? I kind of would like one, but I got...
Alex Honnold:
But that's because you love the ocean. I hate the ocean.
Shelby Stanger:
Oh yeah. We talked about surfing, and I think Alex should come surfing with me, but right now...
Alex Honnold:
That's a hard no.
Shelby Stanger:
Yeah, he's a hard. No, but he does foil board, so if we have any foilers out here.
Alex Honnold:
I only water sports where I don't get wet, so I paddleboarding a little bit, and I like e-foiling a little bit. Basically things... If I never have to get wet, then I'm like... It is quite beautiful to be out on water, but I just don't want to get wet, which is a weird... Whatever.
Shelby Stanger:
We're almost getting time to let the audience ask questions, but just really quickly, what advice would you give people to start first thing that they need to do if they're going to go out and pursue their wild idea?
Alex Honnold:
I mean, it depends on the wild idea, but I think the big thing is you just start taking some steps. You can sit, I mean, without cap, I sat on the idea for years just hoping that it would somehow magically happen. Each year, just being like, maybe this is the year. And then after many, many years, you're like, "It's just not going to happen unless you try. And so finally I was like, oh, it's time to start trying." And then I put the two years of actual effort into it and then was ultimately able to do it.
But now in retrospect, I'm kind of like, "I probably could have started that process four or five years sooner and been able to do it then," but I just didn't... I don't know. You just keep hoping that it'll just happen. And then in my case, I think I just turned 30, which I know isn't old-old, but I was kind of like, "Oh, life is passing by and I'm not doing the thing I want to do." And I'm kind of like, "Oh, geez, I should probably get to it." And so then you have to start at some point.
Shelby Stanger:
That's the age when I quit my job, landed a story in Outside Magazine and was like, "I'm going to be an adventure journalist. It's a good..."
Alex Honnold:
And here you are.
Shelby Stanger:
Here I am. And one wild idea led to the next and the next.
At this point, we opened up the floor to the audience for a Q&A session.
Speaker 5:
Starting out, I just want to say thanks for being here, and I think there's lots of people that consider you a mentor.
Shelby Stanger:
Yes.
Speaker 5:
And I really like the fact that you are using your climbing expertise in projects like you did in Arctic Ascent to help science. I wondered if you were thinking about doing more projects like that in the future where you can actually use your skills to help scientific projects.
Alex Honnold:
Yeah, definitely. The Arctic Ascent for those that don't know is the National Geographic Show on Disney Plus that I did where we went to Eastern Greenland and climbed with the scientists. It was a totally amazing expedition for me. I'd love to do more things like that, but that's kind of just up to the nature of television, which is fickle. But to me...
Shelby Stanger:
Just a little.
Alex Honnold:
That's the ideal kind of expedition to me where we did something that..., I mean, the two climbs who did that, I was legitimately proud of those climbs. I thought they were cool. The whole terrain was incredible. I learned a ton. The scientist, Heidi was so inspiring, and I personally learned so much. And I was kind of like, "Oh, this is an ideal expedition." And so certainly if anybody here works in broadcast television, I'm like, "I'm down to do more things like that." But it's just hard to get that stuff made.
Shelby Stanger:
Great question.
Speaker 3:
I'm interested in what surprises or fascinates you outside of climbing in sport. Could you tell a story or anecdote that was beautiful or harrowing or profound with sport outside of climbing?
Shelby Stanger:
Surfing?
Alex Honnold:
Just kidding. Well, that's definitely not beautiful or profound. Come on, it's surfing. Wait, I don't even understand. That's like a beautiful story that's not related to climbing. Do I know anything about that?
Shelby Stanger:
Hiking? Foiling?
Alex Honnold:
No, no. Those are water things. I don't know. I mean, I'm basically just not very good at any kind of outdoor sport except for climbing.
Shelby Stanger:
What about the talent in skiing thing?
Alex Honnold:
Yeah, that's a good example. Trying to ski Mount Whitney with a professional skier, but he didn't even ski because he was dying of altitude sickness, and I couldn't ski because I can't ski. So it was generally a big misadventure.
Shelby Stanger:
You skied down Mount Whitney, which is the tallest mountain in California. Right.
Alex Honnold:
Well, is it fair to call it skiing if you don't make any turns?
Shelby Stanger:
Yes.
Alex Honnold:
I was like, we can ask the serious skiers here in the house. It's like, I don't know if it totally counts.
Shelby Stanger:
It's
Alex Honnold:
Amazing. But we survived. Anyway. Okay, another question.
Speaker 6:
So I'd like to train and get to doing my first 5-13A, which would be the hardest climb I've ever done in my life, but I haven't quite decided on the climb that I'm going to do. And I know that you've talked with Tommy Codwell, I think you haven't done a 5-15 yet, and I remember there might've been an interview where you're like, "Maybe I'll try that." Have you decided to do that, and have you kind of ballparked what, 5-15 you might try?
Alex Honnold:
Yeah. So what you're referencing was the race to 9-A, which is actually 14-D, not 5-15. But either way, yeah, Tommy and I kind of have a gentleman's wager kind of racing to hard grades again as middle-aged dads trying our best to be decent climbers. But yeah, actually tomorrow I'll be trying a route that is maybe 14-D, Maybe 14-C. But either way, I think it might be one of the hardest things I've ever tried.
Shelby Stanger:
Tomorrow?
Alex Honnold:
Yeah. Yeah. I fly back tonight.
Shelby Stanger:
Rad. Yeah. Dropped. Yeah. I've been pretty tight with my schedule because if you want to climb your best outside, you kind of have to go outside and try the thing that you're working on. So yeah. So I'll go back late tonight, and tomorrow morning I'll hike up to the cliff and I'll try to send my proj. And I think I have a good shot, but we'll see. Good luck on your 13 amps. I'm psyched for you.
Speaker 4:
How you doing, Honnold? Yeah, I think as a climber, we always have that experience. No matter how much we're trying, we go to the gym and there's some twelve-year-old kid just crushing our project.
Alex Honnold:
Dude, dude. I have that experience that all the time.
Speaker 4:
So I would say if you had the opportunity to be 12 years old again with your mind, your experience, what are some things you would do and approach climbing a little differently as far as your climbing adventures and career?
Alex Honnold:
Oh, that's an interesting, if I could put everything I've learned into the body of a twelve-year-old, like an over-stoked twelve-year-old? I don't know. But I would be an unstoppable 12-year-old. That would be incredible.I would love the opportunity to do it again, just because I feel like there's so many things that I learned about how to climb walls and training and just all the things that have taken me so long to learn that I'm like, "Man, if I could start over knowing all that, I would be so good." But sadly, I can't. So that's okay. But yeah, that said, I'm happy with the journey that I've taken, too. That's fine. But man, to be a good twelve-year-old.
Speaker 9:
What's your favorite crag snack?
Alex Honnold:
Favorite crag snack? I always take a bell pepper to the crag. Love eating a bell pepper like an apple, just num, num, num, num.
Speaker 6:
Is there any fictional character or story that inspired you as a kid?
Alex Honnold:
Fictional characters? Yeah, I don't know. There's some things like Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit, like some classic fantasy-type tales that I routinely think of while traveling, because there's so many landscapes on earth where you're questing through the mountains and you're kind of like, "I could see a hobbit showing up here," or "Surely there's a dwarf around the corner." You know what I mean? When you're fully in the mountains all by your onesie, having some total adventure, there's just a lot of landscapes in the world. Fantasy authors take that stuff from reality, basically. Yeah, I read quite a lot as a child, like sci-fi and fantasy and things like that. And I do think that, I think about it a lot as an adult while traveling, because you just see those worlds, except they all exist.
Speaker 7:
Hello. So you mentioned earlier that some of these big trips, they're hard because you go and you're stuck in the rain or the cold or whatever for a long time before you get to do as much climbing. How do you keep the energy high and keep the excitement high for those days that you actually do get to get out and climb?
Alex Honnold:
Eating sugar. You make sure you have enough sugar. No, no, I'm just kidding. You just try to stay psyched. So I did a month expedition in Guyana in the jungle, and so it was a month we were in the mud. The whole time is so buggy and muggy and raining non-stop. It was kind of heinous. We hangboarded every other day for the whole trip. And the wall that we climbed, we were literally rock climbing for five days out of this one month trip, which I think is the least climbing I've ever done in my life. And even the climb we did was only a 12 pitch, 5-12 or something. And so I was in a whole month of climbing. I've climbed 12 pitches. I was like, this is so bad. On the other hand, we did just workout stuff nonstop for every other day, for the whole month. And then I came home from the trip and I sent my sport project, some supposed 14-C the next week. I was kind of like, "It works. You just have to just keep hanging, stay psyched, just keep working out." And so, I don't know, I think you just have to find the motivation. But on that trip, I also read a ton of books and just festered in the fricking hammock. It's like you do the best you can. Cool.
Speaker 8:
So I wrote this down so I don't stumble on my words so much, but I just want to know about your personal experience with business and the intersection with that and climbing. And I know when you're climbing El Cap and when you're preparing for that, it really demanded such a unique blend of your passion, precision, risk taking, and most of all, your connection to the environment. And your Honnold Foundation really reflects such a similar spirit in that clean energy space. And I just want to know, we're talking about all these big ideas that you want to have and big ideas that you have personally and between climbing and clean energy intersecting in your approach to, how does that intersect in your approach to taking risks and creating impact overall?
Alex Honnold:
Yeah, I don't know exactly what you mean by that, but the random thing that I'm thinking about is that we're talking about big ideas. So the work that we do at the Honnold Foundation, we support, we give grants to nonprofits, to community organizations around the world that then use solar in their communities in whatever way betters the community. And actually I think that that's kind of an example of small ideas that you just support, because the things that we're doing are basically... It's really basic. It's like panels on a school or panels to provide light for the first time in some village in rural wherever that doesn't have, has never had access to power, things like that. I mean, I think that there's something to be said for relatively simple ideas that you just have to execute.
And I think that's an important distinction between big ideas, which is like, "Let's power the world," versus the sort of small ideas where "This person needs light," and you can do that with a frigging 40-watt panel and a tiny battery and an LED bulb. And so it's like, I think you don't need to overthink some of those kinds of solutions where you don't have to solve the world's problems, just start community by community solving very small problems. And that's what we've been doing at the Honnold Foundation for so many years. And that's partially because as a rock climber, you just don't make that much money and so you just can't give that much. It's not like the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation where you can give billions to it. You're kind of like, "Oh, we have limited means, but we can solve some problems and we'll start with those problems that we can solve." So anyway, I mean that's my little soapbox about big ideas versus small ideas is you don't want to overthink it either. Start with the things you can do.
Speaker 8:
All right, thanks.
Shelby Stanger:
I think we have time for one or two more questions.
Alex Honnold:
Let's let the little kid go. Yeah. Hoist him up. Yeah.
Speaker 4:
What's the hardest climb you've bouldered, and do you like bouldering?
Alex Honnold:
Yeah, that's embarrassing. I try my best. I do like bouldering. I try my best. I'm a terrible boulderer. I bouldered V-twelve-ish, kind of. They're all, probably not. They're probably V-eleven. I don't know. I do my best. It's so bad by modern standards, but it's okay.
Shelby Stanger:
Time for one more question. Sorry, guys. And after, Alex is going to be at the North Face tent, and he's going to be around definitely this festival for at least till six tonight.
Alex Honnold:
Yeah. Until I go to the airport so I can send my project tomorrow. Yeah.
Speaker 7:
What's the biggest or scariest fall you've taken?
Alex Honnold:
With a rope or without?
Speaker 7:
Both.
Alex Honnold:
Both, yeah. Okay. I should have known. Let's see. So biggest fall without a rope. So I actually have fallen off soloing a couple of times when I was younger, always below the first bolt on routes when I was down climbing. Sort of random, kind of silly. But actually it was kind of interesting, because you free solo a route. You're way up there. You're like, "I'm sending, this is extreme." And then you climb back down and basically as you get closer to the ground, you get more and more sort of playful about it basically feels like bouldering again, because you're only six feet off the ground.
And when I was young, I had two different times where I was six feet off the ground and basically just fell off or kind of slipped. And so it's just like a normal bouldering fall. You just land in the sand and you're kind of like, "Oh, didn't even see that. That's embarrassing." And so I've never actually taken a real fall and in my mind I was always kind of like, well that's because as you get really close to the ground, you just get a little looser, because you can. Obviously, I'm not climbing that way when I'm up high, but I think in general I'm a lot tighter about all that now. I haven't fallen off solo in a long time. Like yeah, ever, thankfully.
Shelby Stanger:
That was amazing.
Alex Honnold:
And then biggest rope falls, don't know. Nothing... I've taken tons of rope jumps off. Things like when you do some huge sport pitch and you just don't clip the bolts on the whole second half and then jump off some whole cave. But that's always intentional, because you're like, "This is epic!" It's for fun.
Shelby Stanger:
Alex, thank you for sharing your wisdom with us. This has been so awesome.
After the recording wrapped, I asked everyone to turn to someone they didn't know and share their wild idea. Alex joined in on the activity and spoke with some really stoked kids in the front row. It was inspiring to hear what the audience members were dreaming up. Everything from bold travel plans to creative projects, big hikes, and really big life shifts. If you have a wild idea of your own, we'd love to hear it. Leave us a note in a podcast review and tell us what you're cooking up. We'll even give you a shout-out in a future episode. And if you're into the idea of more live podcast recordings like this one, let us know. We had such a blast. We'd love to do more.
Huge thanks to Alex Honnold for joining us on stage. Alex is such a gracious guy, and he just makes you feel like you can do anything. He even called me from a sat phone on a glacier when I was fact-checking his story about him for my book. You can keep up with Alex Honnold on Instagram at @Alex Honnold and learn more about the work he's doing through the Honnold Foundation at Honnoldfoundation.org. If you want to hear our first conversation with Alex from back in 2018, you'll find a link to that episode in the show notes. We'll also link to our episode with Jimmy Chin and Chai Vasarhelyi, the directors of Free Solo.
Wild Ideas Worth Living is part of the REI Podcast Network. It's hosted by me, Shelby Stanger, produced by Annie Fassler, Sylvia Thomas, and Sam Pierce Nitzberg of Puddle Creative. Our senior producers are Jenny Barber and Hannah Boyd. Our executive producers are Paolo Motila and Joe Crosby. As always, we love it when you follow the show, take time to rate it, and write a review wherever you listen. And remember, some of the best adventures happen when you follow your wildest ideas.