Alexi Pappas is a wildly talented, multi-faceted athlete. She’s a professional runner, an author, a champion for mental health, a guide runner for blind athletes, a filmmaker, and an entrepreneur. When she runs, Alexi is often wearing a huge smile on her face and a healthy dusting of glitter across her cheeks. Alexi’s running journey has taken her to through peaks and valleys and she’s using her story to mentor the next generation.
Alexi Pappas is a wildly talented, multi-faceted athlete. She’s a professional runner, an author, a champion for mental health, a guide runner for blind athletes, a filmmaker, and an entrepreneur. When she runs, Alexi is often wearing a huge smile on her face and a healthy dusting of glitter across her cheeks. Alexi’s running journey has taken her to through peaks and valleys and she’s using her story to mentor the next generation.
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Shelby Stanger:
Alexi Pappas is one of the most multifaceted athletes I've ever met. She's a professional runner, an author, a champion for mental health, a guide runner for blind athletes, a filmmaker and an entrepreneur. When she runs, Alexi is often wearing a huge smile on her face and a healthy dusting of glitter across her cheeks. She believes no one should have to pick and choose between wild ideas. Instead, Alexi follows all of her dreams wherever they take her. I'm Shelby Stanger, and this is Wild Ideas Worth Living, an REI Co-op Studios production, brought to you by Capital One.
Alexi Pappas, welcome to Wild Ideas Worth Living. I'm so excited to talk to you.
Alexi Pappas:
Thank you for having me.
Shelby Stanger:
I think we should go back in time and tell people a little bit about your badass running background. Can you just give us a quick and dirty bio of your running?
Alexi Pappas:
Yeah, sure. My dad put me in sports since I was four years old, so soccer, basketball, softball, gymnastics. Running was the strength in all of them. It was very clear. I could steal bases faster than anybody in softball and things like that, and so running was a thing that I knew I was destined and doomed to do. And I ran freshman, sophomore year of high school, and I was one of the best in California. I also wanted to play soccer and do student government and all this stuff, and I went to a private school, and the rules were whatever the school wanted.
My coach loved the fast girl on the team who was two years older than me, and she did not like that I was playing soccer and still beating her in races because I wasn't at every single running practice because I was playing soccer, so she complained, and they kicked everybody off the team who was not just running, who missed any practices for running. And I was 16. I was a little sprout, you know what I mean? I was curious, and I was good, and I was mad that I wasn't allowed to do more than one thing because I felt that there were guys at the high school that were playing basketball and baseball or they were dual sport athletes, and I felt like a bad kid.
So I didn't run for junior and senior year of high school and that felt unfair then, but in retrospect, it built in a break from all the running and I went through puberty in a really healthy way, and then was recruited to college at Dartmouth and other schools based on my times, which is kind of strange now. But they were just like, "The girl ran four whatever miles, so we're going to recruit her." And I wanted to run in college because I still had curiosity, and I slowly progressed, and it took me... I only increased my mileage by 10 miles a week every year, and I think that's so important for people to understand. It was 30 miles a week freshman year, 40 miles, 50 miles, 60 miles senior year, 70 miles when I did-
Shelby Stanger:
So healthy.
Alexi Pappas:
Well, it was appropriate, and I didn't get injured at all because I think that soccer and that natural puberty really gave me the bones and the structure and the dynamicism. And then I finally got to be a national, I was third in the country by the time I was a senior at Dartmouth. And then did a fifth year at Oregon and we won a bunch of national titles together, and then I joined a professional team, which was a new world for me, a Nike team in Oregon, and I trained, and I ran in the 2016 Olympics. I'm dual citizen. I ran for Greece. I broke a national record and loved it. It was an amazing experience.
Shelby Stanger:
After running in the 2016 Olympics where she set Greece's national 10K record, Alexi was riding the high of her success, but soon after, she went through an intense post-Olympic depression. She felt like her mind was racing and she couldn't sleep. The question of what was next nagged at her. Alexi tried everything to keep up with her sponsor's expectations, but in doing so, she pushed herself too hard and ended up tearing her hamstring. On her journey to heal, Alexi got treatment for both her body and her mind. She started writing more and turned to art.
What advice do you have to people who are on the other side of a peak experience and it doesn't feel very good or graceful?
Alexi Pappas:
I think the real thing here is just recognizing that any peak in our life is a mountaintop. So you climb, climb, climb, you get to the mountaintop, it is whatever it is, however wonderful or barren, but it's not a cliff. It's a mountain, and there's another side to it, and that's the part that we're so unprepared for because if somebody were to tell us there's another side to it, we would not be able to focus on getting to the peak in the first place. And so I think rather than jump right to the next activity or whatever I found next, what would've helped me tremendously is to just recognize that the mountain is not complete until I get down the mountain.
Rock climbers can tell you better than I can that the descent is more dangerous than the ascent. I think people who have just peaked in some way or went through a big thing should just accept that the decompression is a chapter of the dream itself, so to mentally accept the kind of melancholy... It starts as a melancholy, right? Because it's so beautiful to even chase anything in the first place or go through something, and hopefully it's melancholic, not just straight bad afterwards. So to expect it, and then to build in a period of time afterwards where we don't ask ourselves the question, what's next? And If somebody asks you, as is often done, don't answer that question. Just don't, because we can't necessarily stop people from asking it, but just refuse to answer it and say, "I don't know. I'm decompressing right now from this experience. Bye."
Shelby Stanger:
I wish I had talked to you six months ago, because after I was done writing a book, everybody's like, "What's next? What's next? What's your next book?" I'm like, "I just am going to lie on a beach and do nothing."
Alexi Pappas:
That's the right thing to do.
Shelby Stanger:
People did not like that answer. People were really uncomfortable, and I was like, "I don't know."
Alexi Pappas:
And it's a depletion. It's not just a feeling, and so people just have to... Also, look. I think to just try and get a little bit more neutral on wins and losses is a big growth that I've been pushing myself toward, because some people might be affected in their aftermath of their peak by the result of the peak. Okay, there's going to be kind of a little dip no matter what. You'll be okay and if you need help, get help and all that stuff, but what about the result itself? I think that when you opt into life, if you're listening to this podcast, you want to pursue a life full of wild, big ideas, and bad things and good things are just a part of life. It's going to rain sometimes, but to simultaneously hold the feelings of loss or pain or whatever, or joy, whatever it is, with the acceptance overall is such a wonderful shift to make in life.
Shelby Stanger:
So how did you come out of this post Olympic depression, because where this whole glitter thing started?
Alexi Pappas:
So during my depression, I continued to train. I had never had an injury in my life, and I tore my hamstring and it was continuing to tear. If you have an injury that is not a straight-up broken bone, it can be a little confusing, but I could run. And so long story short, I was slowly tearing my hamstring, and for the next Olympic cycle for Tokyo, I was almost ready to run in a qualifying race. It was two weeks before the race. I was trained, I was ready, and then I saw a physio in Boulder who didn't know who I was, and I was like, "I have this weird hamstring," and I'm telling you, if anybody says they have a weird anything, weird hip, weird hamstring, stop. That is an injury, stop it. Stop. No weird. Weird, weird, weird. No, stop. I was saying weird for years, or weak.
It's like, "No, you're an Olympic athlete. You're not just weird or weak, you're injured." And he was like, "Would you get an MRI?" I got an MRI and he said my hamstring was more torn than Usain Bolt when he medically retired, and he was like, "I don't know how you're even walking." So I stopped. That day, I was like, "I'm done." It had built up so much scar tissue that a reconstruction surgery was required, and I did it a week or two later, didn't tell anyone because I was really uncomfortable with the idea of a surgery, and it was COVID, so no one was looking at me anyway. And then I signed up for the New York City Marathon, which is something that athletes do. When we have an injury, oftentimes, we sign up for the next peak while we're still injured, and I think that that is a mistake because it puts on this weird timeline, bad timeline.
A timeline at all when you're injured is a really dangerous thing, but it made me feel like I had something to work towards. It was nine months later, and I rehabbed and my leg was totally fine, but I was recovering. And then when I got to New York, I was able to run. I knew I could run the marathon, but I was not fit enough or healthy enough to race the marathon. So that's the difference between running 5:40 pace for a mile in a marathon and a seven, eight minute pace. So I called the New York Marathon. I told them, "I can't race, but I can run. Would you let me come and run with the people?" Because the elite women start further up. And they were like, "It's okay. We love you." They were so nice. "Come start with the elites and run however fast you want."
And I was like, "Oh, okay. That's different," because the elite group is 20 something women. It's a very small group and they start in advance and everybody can see them, and I was like, "Everyone's going to think something's wrong with me because I'm going to be alone for the whole race." And I was like, what do I do? Do I just drop out? Because this is going to be humiliating. And my physio mentor was like, "You're going to have the streets of New York City all to yourself. You have to do this. This is just a rare opportunity."
And so I went and I was very scared, and I hired a makeup designer person to come to my hotel and do the glitter on my face because I wanted people to know that I was okay. I wanted to indicate that this was some sort of intentional, positive thing, and I ended up dancing through that New York City Marathon and leaping, and that came to me during the race, but that's where the glitter began. It began as an indication to the world and to me that this was my choice and that I was feeling okay.
Shelby Stanger:
That New York Marathon was just the beginning of a new phase for Alexi. She came to see running as a kind of performance, and became outspoken about self-expression and growth. When we come back, Alexi talks about her relationship with running today, her new company, Bravey, and the mentorship work she's doing to empower young women.
Alexi Pappas is a professional athlete, actor, writer, and entrepreneur. After competing on the global stage, Alexi's struggles with mental health and injuries led her to explore her more artistic side. She's now an award-winning filmmaker, actress, director and writer, but of course, she still finds time to run. It just looks a little different than it used to. These days, Alexi runs as a way to connect with nature, and she's also a guide runner for para-athlete, Lisa Thompson. What does running look like for you today?
Alexi Pappas:
Okay, so I run on mostly trails most days, but I also have periods of time where I can't run. I froze my eggs in December, which I'm really happy about, but it really rocked my body, and so I guess the truth about my running is that when I'm up and running, I'm running every day. I probably run four to 13 miles in any given day. I love running. It's my favorite way to move. It's my favorite way to see the world. It's my favorite way to socialize. And then I go to these races and run, not at the paces that I used to race, but I'm out there and I do better because there's other people around. I'm like a tank. I can't go super quick unless I train hard, but I can just go forever, and that I'm very grateful for. I'm like, "Oh, body. Thank you body. Thank you for just taking me with you."
Shelby Stanger:
Gratitude, it's huge. I want to switch gears because I listened to you on another podcast talk about guiding blind runners, and we've had on a blind runner and his guide, Jerome Avery and David Brown, and they were fascinating. Guiding a runner is really hard, and running blind seems challenging, incredibly. I'm curious what this experience has been like.
Alexi Pappas:
Yeah, guiding is amazing. So when you're a guide, you're not neutral. You're either going to help your athlete, your teammate, or you're going to limit them, because you're so intimately connected, literally. Lisa's the person I've guided most. We actually just ran next to each other and held hands for the first couple of times we ran, and then we discovered the real benefit of using a tether. We use a handheld tether, which I much prefer in running to a waist tether, and I can tell people why, because I know... Well, because we did a triathlon, a paratriathlon last year. We did two, we went to the Nationals, which is a whole other thing because I had to learn how to cycle and to swim, and I'm not necessarily good at those sports but I'm learning. But oftentimes in the triathlon, they use waist tethers, and I really think for running, the hand tether is better because you can use tension to communicate.
You are responsible for their safety, you're responsible for their pace, you're responsible for their fluids and nutrition, and you're also their team captain out there trying to share with them what they can't see. So entertaining them. I mean, it's four hours or whatever of a marathon, and people are running by in costumes at Boston or there's cool houses and all this stuff, so you're also like an audiobook, but most of all, you're a team captain and it's not about you. It's about your teammate, and I think for me, what's been so beautiful is trying to be competitive on somebody else's behalf and to always prioritize her, and to help her be her best self.
Shelby Stanger:
I love that. And are you actually really starting a glitter company? Is this real?
Alexi Pappas:
Yeah. Okay, so I started a company, Bravy, last year with two other women, and we as a company, we are developing film and television projects that are kind of sports genre movies. And then we have a product side and we're developing a glitter with a team out in LA, and I'm really excited for it. So yeah, we're going to try our go in the product world and I'm tickled by it, I guess.
You know there's some things in life that you're like, "This is what I was meant to do. I need to drive towards this," and then there's some things that just tickle you, and I think making the glitter is just ticklish to me.
Shelby Stanger:
Bravey, the name of Alexi's company, is also the title of her memoir that came out in 2023. She even has an adapted version specifically for young readers. In the books, alexi tells her story and encourages young women to dream big. She's also launching a podcast called The Mentor Buffet to share insights from the mentors who have shaped her. Your new podcast is about mentorship, and I'm really curious about the role mentorship has played in your own life.
Alexi Pappas:
I think mentorship starts as a thing that maybe you're passively handed, but it can be a two-way street. So when I was younger, I was always like, "How am I going to be a person that I want to be if I don't know how to do that?" And didn't have a mom growing up and didn't have a lot of close access to even female athletes or the performer types, because I have that in me. And so I just started reaching up, so reaching for that mentorship, and it was either in a real life context through coaches and people I could touch and access, or it was imagining that I was being mentored by things I could access remotely, like books and magazines at the time. Now, podcasts, audiobooks.
Shelby Stanger:
You've also become this kind of iconic mentor to a younger generation of females. You're really different. You act and you compete at the highest level in running. You've had films that I watched on Netflix and a book that's a bestseller. I'm just really curious how being a mentor now to young women has become really important to you as well, and the reaction.
Alexi Pappas:
Yeah. Well, it's interesting, there are some programs where you formally become a mentor. If you are... I don't know, on my podcast, I talked to someone who was a lawyer before and they have formal mentors that are assigned to them, so there are worlds and avenues where you can be a mentor. But then there's just being a role model, I guess, and maybe having influence, and I think a good mentor is someone who is living the way that someone might want to be living, but also is someone who can uniquely communicate to someone something that will help them grow.
And sometimes, it's active. You select your words, you're trying to mentor, you're trying to help, and sometimes it's passive. For me to think someone is a mentor to me who's never met me means that for some reason, they're communicating to me and it speaks to me. And so for me as a mentor to other people, I'm just trying to live the most saturated version of myself and not hurt anyone, and by being that, it is helping some people, and it's a responsibility. I think you have to be a little bit beyond what you're helping other people to do, and then balancing that for yourself can be challenging because you have to keep growing.
Shelby Stanger:
You're not just an athlete, you're not just an Olympian. You're many things, and you said this word I really loved. You said, "I have to show up as a saturated version of myself." And that vision is like you just have all this yumminess that you are exuding out and also taking in. You are a very full human, and I'm just curious, have you always been this saturated version of yourself?
Alexi Pappas:
No. I mean, yes in parts of me, but when we talk about the saturated self, there was a time... I mean, when I was little, I just wanted to be like all these other girls. I would pluck my eyebrows like them and try to do my hair like them, and then when I ran for Nike, I wanted to be like the Nike kid for a while. So certainly, I was a saturated human, but it wasn't necessarily me. It just was a thing I decided to survive. I wanted to thrive, I wanted to fit in. So my true self would only come out when I was extremely safe and nothing was at risk, so my arts actually, like acting, felt sort of true self to me back then it was pretty safe to just go out there and be myself, and so I had some artistic pursuits. And when you're running at your best, you have to be your true self because to really get the most out of you, when you're actually competing, that's your true self too, I think.
But the more I've grown, the more I've tried to create environments where I feel safer and safer being my true self and seeing where that takes me, and sometimes it doesn't work. My true self is not going to work for everyone, but it will work for some people, and I think what people learn in life is that you accelerate your life by being the saturated version of yourself. You start to find the people and the communities that do accept you, and I don't know if people understand me or not, but I think I'm getting there with building a house that I can live in, metaphorically.
Shelby Stanger:
The way you have with words and describing things is really unique. Did you study poetry, English in college?
Alexi Pappas:
Yeah, I would say my number one, the thing I'm meant to do most in this world is write, and I studied poetry at Dartmouth and I won every single writing award that that school had and the only reason why that was important is because those grants paid for my Olympic training. And I remember when I won those writing grants, I was like, "All right, now I can pay for gas for the next two years while I train for the Olympics." It was genuinely like, "I don't care about accolades. I just want to chase my dreams." And so, yeah, I'm a writer and I have some really exciting writing projects that I'm working on right now, like a play. And I have a movie project that I can't talk about yet, but it's going to be really, really special, and I'm writing a new book with Random House about change.
So writing is where... Well, and that's why social media is a little stressful for me, because my primary work is not being an influencer on social media. My primary work is being out there in the world, guiding, running races, writing, doing podcasts just like you. And yet, the social media can be so weird because it's part of our work, but it doesn't feel like what I was meant to do on this planet. It just is this supplementary piece to share with the world, and I'm still figuring that part out.
Shelby Stanger:
Alexi has a lot to balance, but she's been able to find her footing even as she goes after new and exciting projects. Most importantly, Alexi has a steadiness that comes from knowing and trusting herself. If you want to learn more about Alexi Pappas and her upcoming projects, check out her Instagram, @AlexiPappas. That's A-L-E-X-I, P-A-P-P-A-S. You can buy her book Bravey wherever you buy books, and you can watch her movies, Olympic Dreams, and Track Town on any on-demand service. Be sure to also keep an eye out for her new film, Not an Artist, coming out later this year.
Wild Ideas Worth Living is part of the REI Podcast network. It's hosted by me, Shelby Stanger, produced by Annie Fassler Sylvia Thomas and Sam Piers Nitzberg of Puddle Creative. Our senior producers are Jenny Barber and Hannah Boyd. Our executive producers are Paolo Motila and Joe Crosby. As always, we love it when you follow the show, take time to rate it and write a review wherever you listen. And remember, some of the best adventures happen when you follow your wildest ideas.