Christophe Zajac-Denek was just a couple of days old when he was diagnosed with a rare form of dwarfism called cartilage-hair hypoplasia. Doctors told his parents that he might never be able to ride a bike or go for a run. Despite his physical limitations, Christophe gets out on the water to surf anytime he can.
Christophe Zajac-Denek was just a couple of days old when he was diagnosed with a rare form of dwarfism called cartilage-hair hypoplasia. Doctors told his parents that he might never be able to ride a bike or go for a run. Today, Christophe stands at four feet, four inches tall. He can't bend his back and the bones in his legs have been surgically altered. Despite his physical limitations, Christophe gets out on the water to surf anytime he can.
Connect with Christophe:
Christophe Zajac-Denek:
I can always see myself on the replay camera because I'm the only one that looks like a two-by-four in a wetsuit on top of a surfboard, because I can't bend my back at all. So I have to be in the perfect spot on the board, and the perfect spot on the wave to just be able to get in. And I've figured it out. I figured out what works for me.
Shelby Stanger:
Christophe Zajac-Denek has been obsessed with surfing since he was 14 years old. He loves riding waves, enjoying the sun-lit blue water, and being part of the boisterous surfing community. But Christophe has had to learn how to make this sport work for his body. When he was just a couple of days old, Christophe was diagnosed with a rare form of dwarfism called cartilage-hair hypoplasia. Doctors told his parents that he might never be able to ride a bike or go for a run. Today, Christophe stands at four feet, four inches tall. He can't bend his back and the bones in his legs have been surgically altered. Despite his physical limitations, Christophe gets out on the water anytime he can. I'm Shelby Stanger and this is Wild Ideas Worth Living an REI Co-op Studio's production.
Over the course of his life, Christophe Zajac-Denek has gone after a lot of wild ideas. He's competed in surfing competitions, toured all over the world as a professional drummer and acted in some major TV shows and films. Another piece of Christophe's work is to advocate for normalizing dwarfism. He has a podcast called I'm Kind of a Big Deal, where he interviews little people who have gone after their wild ideas. He also speaks publicly about his own experience living with dwarfism.
Christophe Zajac-Denek, welcome to Wild Ideas Worth Living.
Christophe Zajac-Denek:
Thank you so much, Shelby. I'm so honored to be on the show. I kind of have chicken skin right now. This is amazing.
Shelby Stanger:
Aw, you're so sweet. Well, it's an honor to have you on as well, and I think we should just get into some of these wild ideas you've had. So you've been a drummer, you've been an actor, a stunt man. You're a podcaster, you're a surfer, and you're a speaker. So let's just start with the background of being a rockstar, because that always is interesting to me, especially being a drummer.
Christophe Zajac-Denek:
Yeah, drumming's amazing. I started when I was 14 years old and I had just practiced like crazy and it was such a great outlet. My childhood was ... My parents were both very, very loving people that always wanted the best for me, and they got me the medical attention that I really needed at the times that I really needed it. And I just fell in love with playing music and listening to punk rock and Nirvana and Sound Garden and getting out on the road and touring. I never really wanted to be in the spotlight, and I think that's because of my size. I was always more comfortable being back in the shadows and being a support element. But then I got to play in the river Seine in Paris on a boat with 400 screaming fans. It was amazing. Some people don't get to travel to Europe, and I've been able to tour and play music on a bus there, and I was a lot younger then. I don't think I want to do that now at this point. But at that point I was in my probably mid-twenties or something.
Shelby Stanger:
You said your parents were really loving and wanted you to have the biggest life that you could possibly have, but you had a lot of medical treatments when you were young. What does that look like?
Christophe Zajac-Denek:
So when I was born, day two of Christophe's life, the doctor came in and told my mom, "Hey, your son has a condition. It's probably some type of dwarfism, but we don't really know, but we can tell you that he is never going to run. He's never going to ride a bicycle. He's never going to live a full active lifestyle." And I actually interviewed my mom on my podcast about this moment and she said she was heartbroken. She has this brand new baby, and the first thing she hears is, "can't" and "won't." And it was really, really hard. Thankfully both of my parents are, we'll say, lovingly stubborn individuals, who decided that that wasn't the answer.
And so they sought out to find out what exactly my condition was and how they could treat it and what best they could do for me. So they found a doctor. I'm from Detroit, Michigan. We found a doctor in Baltimore, Maryland, and ever since I was two, from two to 18, we traveled multiple times a year to go and get checkups. And my body was measured and range of motion was taken down and so many notes. And so over the years I've had two reconstructive leg surgeries and a spinal fusion. So my spine is fused from T1 to L4, which is pretty much your entire back which makes surfing not so easy.
Shelby Stanger:
So I was going to ask you about that. I'm like, you do all these things. Why did they do that?
Christophe Zajac-Denek:
Yeah, absolutely. So dwarfism is a mixed bag. My condition is called cartilage-hair hypoplasia and it's a very rare condition, whereas I don't look like an achondroplasia dwarf, which is Peter Dinklage has achondroplasia and 80% of the dwarves that you see have achondroplasia. I'm a little bit more proportionate. And I'm relatively taller. I'm 4'4", but you still have complications. So I was going to have bowed legs. And so if you were to take an x-ray of my leg today, you'd see a chunk of bone missing in both of my legs, that's still not connected. And then they did some other things. An osteotomy will straighten a curved bone. So on my femur, I've had osteotomies that - they take a wedge out and it straightens the bone. And then because I had scoliosis significantly enough, and I wore a back brace for three years, which I absolutely hated, I kind of knew I was going to just have to have surgery. They decided to go in when I was 17 and open up my back and put two rods and attach the rods with hooks to my spine.
Shelby Stanger:
So looking at you, you look incredibly mobile. I've seen a video of you surfing and running around.
Christophe Zajac-Denek:
Smoke and mirrors my friend. No, I am incredibly mobile. Yes, I'm extremely fortunate.
Shelby Stanger:
What was your mental outlook growing up as a kid to get through these surgeries? Because that's not easy for an adult. It's not easy for a kid.
Christophe Zajac-Denek:
Sure. I didn't know any other way. It's kind of the situation where you do what you have to do. My mom said at one point she was driving me in the car and I was six years old or something like that, and I said, "You know Mom, I don't really want to have this surgery." And my mom, she just very plainly and lovingly explained to me that she doesn't necessarily want me to have the surgery either, but if we don't go through with this, things could be much more difficult for you down the road. And I guess my response was, "Okay." And you don't have a choice. You know what I mean? You're dealt the cards that you're dealt, given the life and the body and the mind that you have.
Shelby Stanger:
Even though Christophe was in and out of surgeries and doctor's appointments, his parents made sure that he still had a fun childhood in Detroit, Michigan. In addition to drumming and music, Christophe fell in love with surfing. On family vacations to Florida, he'd wander into the surf shops and see photos of surfers on waves that seemed impossible, yet thrilling to ride. Those images stuck with him and Christophe vowed to try the sport himself.
Christophe Zajac-Denek:
When I was 14 or 15, I begged my mom to take me to Cocoa Beach and she took me to Cocoa Beach and I rented a surfboard. I rented a soft top that I think was taking on, I'm pretty sure it was taking on water because I think it was heavier when I got out than when I got in. Couldn't catch any waves. I got caught in some current that dragged me like a quarter of a mile down the beach. Found out that there were rocks underneath me, and I would've been so freaked out if I would've touched any jagged rocks. I would've screamed, I'm sure. But I got out of the water and I was still stoked. I wanted a shorter board. I was like, "I need a 6', I need a 5'5" board. Let's get out there and do it." No, that was even worse.
So then I ended up sending my check into Surfer Magazine with my Michigan address, just praying that they would actually send the subscription to Michigan because I didn't think that they would. And, yeah, until I was an adult and could get to wherever I could, I was just mind-surfing everything in my basement in Michigan. I loved it so much.
Shelby Stanger:
That's actually a great surfing origin story.
Christophe Zajac-Denek:
I loved it so much, and I still do. I used to say that surfing has changed my life, and now I say that surfing continues to change my life because it just does. The people that I've met and the waves too. I've always loved surfing. It's so great. The only thing I wish I had a little bit longer arms so that my paddles were more efficient.
Shelby Stanger:
So what are your limitations with surfing?
Christophe Zajac-Denek:
Limitations with surfing... there are quite a few. Maybe the back is the biggest thing. I can always see myself on the replay camera because I'm the only one that looks like a two by four in a wetsuit on top of a surfboard because I can't bend my back at all.
Shelby Stanger:
So you can't arch your back?
Christophe Zajac-Denek:
I can't arch my back. It's all, it's just my neck. Yeah, if you see me bend over, it's like a plank. So I have to be in the perfect spot on the board, in the perfect spot on the wave to just be able to get in. And I've figured it out. I've figured out what works for me. The back is a limitation. The shorter arms is a limitation for paddle efficiency. It makes sense. Every inch is going to give you more paddle efficiency and more lever efficiency. And my legs are strong, but my gait is much smaller than somebody who is average height.
Shelby Stanger:
I've seen you on a wave though, and you look really smooth. How do you modify it so it works for you?
Christophe Zajac-Denek:
I've learned what I can about surfboards. I won't surf on something that I know isn't going to work for me. I'm not after a 6'6" step-up board or something like that. Most of the boards that I ride are 8' to 9'. I think I took my 9'2" today. It was great. Wetsuits are pretty close to impossible. Everything has to be custom. So I was remembering today, I think my first custom wetsuit I think was a small man's torso that was Frankensteined with extra large kids' limbs. And then I think they just cut it off at the ends.
Shelby Stanger:
Have there been brands or outlets that have been really supportive of your work and your path?
Christophe Zajac-Denek:
The only brand that I can really say has been supportive is 10 Barrel Brewing. A director approached me last year highlighting people doing things who don't look like they should be doing those things. And so Tommy Corey is the name of the director, extremely talented, and we went four days and I surfed from Ventura to Rincon and then up in Trinidad, way up north, and he shot an interview with me and he did an amazing job. I cried when I saw that just because whether it's me or anybody else, it doesn't matter. I just want little people to be shown in those lights. I think that that's such a rare thing, and I know so many little people that are just doing incredible, incredible things. And there are so many stories that we've lost. People have died and their stories will never be told or they'll be told from someone else. And I just think that I'm beyond honored that I was chosen for that.
Shelby Stanger:
When Christophe's not surfing, he's building his acting career and advocating for other people with dwarfism. After the break, Christophe talks about the good and the bad of his experience working in Hollywood and his podcast, I'm kind of a Big Deal.
Christophe Zajac-Denek has lived a pretty wild life. He's toured around Europe as a rockstar, acted in feature films and major TV series, and he surfs regularly at home in Southern California. Despite his long list of successes, it hasn't always been easy for Christophe to accept himself and his physical limitations. When he first moved to LA and began acting, Christophe started connecting with other little people, and his perspective began to change.
So after you were a drummer, you decided to become an actor?
Christophe Zajac-Denek:
So the band that I was in toured the US and we obviously played in Los Angeles, and I loved Los Angeles mostly because surfing was here. And so when it was time for me to leave the band, I decided that I was going to move to LA and I ended up getting a call from a fan of my band back from Detroit. And they said, "Hey, my friend is an agent in Long Beach and I think you should go talk to them." And so I went and met this agent and this agent immediately they had drool coming down their chops and they were like, "We're going to sign you." As soon as you see a little person and you're an agent, there's opportunity there for things. And so I started to do some acting gigs. It wasn't because I was necessarily a trained actor, I wasn't, but it was a way to survive and make money.
I decided to hang myself off the cliff in LA and not get a stable job. And it just paid so much more than learning 40 covers. And a lot of times I would get dressed up in crazy costumes. And I remember the first show that I worked on in LA. It was a pilot and I worked with 10 other little people. And before that I didn't know any other little people. I wasn't friends with little people. I was 30 years old and I knew one other little person in my life. I did not want to associate with little people. I was against it. I was really hardheaded and didn't want to have that be in my life. And on this first show, I was surrounded by 10 other folks and I had the loveliest time and some of those people are my friends still today.
They've helped me through negotiations and understanding the business and giving me jobs and things like that. And even though I had a great time, I wasn't a convert yet, but my eyes were starting to open a little bit as to accepting myself and accepting other little people. And it wasn't until I worked on a movie when I was living back in Michigan in 2012 or 2013 or something, called Oz, the Great and Powerful, and they hired 50 little people to be munchkins on this show. And so I was around 50 little people every single day for three months straight shooting this film. And that's when I fell in love with my people because it's all about exposure.
The confusing parts of my limbs and my body are because people haven't been around it. They haven't seen it. And that's what it took for me. It took the exposure, it took being around folks who are different, who also look like me, who could validate. And we had incredible times of crazy stupid jokes dressed up like idiots as munchkins on this show, and it was a really emotional time when it ended. And I think when you go through those feelings and you share that with a group, it's pretty impossible to walk away and say, "Yeah, I don't belong."
Shelby Stanger:
Christophe's time in Hollywood has made him more confident and helped him embrace his community. He's also had a pretty successful acting career so far. In 2017, Christophe played Ike the Spike in Twin Peaks, the Return. He's also slated to appear and even star in some upcoming feature films. When it comes to choosing his projects, Christophe has one big rule of thumb. He won't take a role that demeans or dehumanizes little people.
Christophe Zajac-Denek:
I received an audition last winter for a major car commercial that was looking for elves and it's like, man, we got to move on. I really haven't had so many roles where I've been able to feel a character because they are just one or two-dimensional. There are some roles that just leave a bad taste in your mouth or just fall flat in my opinion.
Shelby Stanger:
So I read something on something on a blog or watched a video of yours and you're like, "Why can't we just see a little person going to the bank in a bank commercial or driving a car in a Jeep commercial or surfing a wave in a surfing commercial?" And I think that's a good challenge to put out there. So I want to talk to you about that. What's your hope for Hollywood to put you in a role where you just are a person regardless of your ability, your race or color, your preference, just for being a person with a heart?
Christophe Zajac-Denek:
Yeah, absolutely. I think it's easy to turn your back on Hollywood and throw up your hands and say, "This isn't working. Why even bother?" A friend actually posed to me the question of why do you want to go back to Hollywood? Why do you want to even exist there? Because they just put you in these roles and these situations that don't speak about your truth or your humanity. And it made me think for a second because I wasn't not going to go back to Hollywood, but it gave me some sort of pause and made me contemplate a little bit more. But there's so much that is changing. There are so many more productions that are changing and recognizing that people with disabilities need to be seen and should be seen and that we are just people.
Shelby Stanger:
You want little people to be shown as people regardless of if they're little or not.
Christophe Zajac-Denek:
Yeah. Absolutely.
Shelby Stanger:
Yeah. I think that's a good ask and want to have. How can we all do a better job doing that?
Christophe Zajac-Denek:
Well, I get asked at times, "What's the right way to call a little person? Is it dwarf?" Midget is the offensive term, I think, right? People sometimes don't know that person of short stature, person with dwarfism. And so my call to action in whenever I get asked that question is the correct way is their name. Which means that instead of employing your protection response of avoidance, snickering, making a comment, taking a clandestine photo of us, whatever it is, buck up and see if you can muster up the courage to go introduce yourself and get the name of that person.
Introductions are awkward. That's how it goes. But I think if you show up with a genuine face that just says, "Hey, I just wanted to say hello and I'm Christophe and what's your name?" I think an introduction that cuts through any sort of ulterior motive of wanting to pick someone up or wanting to ask an inappropriate question. We are very skilled at reading the room and your faces so we know when it's real or not. And I think just getting in the practice of that and treating people like a person is huge.
Shelby Stanger:
Outside of acting. Christophe also speaks at conferences and corporate events to advocate for normalizing dwarfism. He's produced audio stories and written articles for different outlets in support of his mission. To broadcast his message even further he has a podcast called, I'm Kind of a Big Deal. So far, Christophe has published more than 40 episodes, interviewing other little people who've gone after some of their wildest ideas.
So you also have a great podcast. What's it called? Talk to me about it.
Christophe Zajac-Denek:
Yeah, so I have a podcast called I'm Kind of a Big Deal: Little People, Huge Stories. So I decided to start and interview other folks that I know that are just supremely incredible and they live wild lives. So I mean, to me that I guess that's a wild idea in itself, is just starting a podcast about folks that no one knows about.
Shelby Stanger:
Dude, starting a podcast is a totally wild idea.
Christophe Zajac-Denek:
It's such a wild idea. I love the podcast. It's really, really tough.
Shelby Stanger:
And you've interviewed some incredible people.
Christophe Zajac-Denek:
I've interviewed really incredible people. I interviewed my friend Sophia, who is a two-time paralympic medalist for swimming. Peter Dinklage's stunt double. My friend who was on the Amazon commercial who was portrayed as just a person while she's still being a little person. She doesn't say anything. She's just at a party with her friends the first time, and it happened in 2020. She's just in street clothes enjoying a party with her friends, and that's amazing. That's so great. It's really sad that the first time it happened was in 2020, but it's really awesome. And she actually booked a second commercial about six months later and was again a human. It was brilliant.
My buddy Pancho, who was the first professional skateboarder and he talked about his touring as a skateboarder and having just a rollercoaster lifestyle of the spotlight and then the crash down from that and then moving over to acting. So just the folks are really, really incredible, and I really just wanted to have a platform for these folks to be able to share their stories and not get convoluted and clouded by what the easy thing is that Hollywood can put out there. If I can put media out there that showcases the real experiences that people never see, of this rare and marginalized group of people, then I want to try and do it.
Shelby Stanger:
If you want to learn more about Christophe's podcast and the other projects he's working on, check out his Instagram at ChristopheZD, that's C H R I S T O P H E Z D. You can also find I'm Kind of a Big Deal Wherever you listen to podcasts. Christophe, thank you so much for coming on Wild Ideas Worth Living. Everything you do for your community is important and necessary. I can't wait to see what you do next on your podcast or the silver screen or even out in the water.
Wild Ideas Worth Living is part of the REI Podcast Network. It's hosted by me, Shelby Stanger, produced by Annie Fassler, Sylvia Thomas, and Sam Peers Nitzberg of Puddle Creative. And our senior producer is Jenny Barber. Our executive producers are Paolo Mottola and Joe Crosby. As always, we appreciate when you follow the show, rate it and review it wherever you listen. And remember, some of the best adventures happen when you follow your wildest ideas.