Liz Thomas is one of the most accomplished hikers in the U.S. She's completed the Triple Crown and set a self-supported, fastest known time on the Appalachian Trail in 2011. Liz has a ton of experience in remote parts of the wilderness, but for the past 10 years, she's been creating and hiking long-distance routes in 15 cities around the U.S.
Liz Thomas is one of the most accomplished hikers in the U.S. She's completed the Triple Crown and set a self-supported, fastest known time on the Appalachian Trail in 2011. Liz has a ton of experience in remote parts of the wilderness, but for the past 10 years, she's been creating and hiking long-distance routes in 15 cities around the U.S.
Connect with Liz:
If you enjoyed this episode, listen to Hello, Los Angeles
Purchase your tickets to Outside Festival 2025
Thank you to our sponsors:
Shelby Stanger:
When I think of thru-hiking, I picture days spent backpacking through forests, campsites, nestled into beautiful landscapes and minimal contact with civilization.
Professional thru-hiker and outdoor writer, Liz Thomas's vision of thru-hiking is quite different. Liz has embraced hiking in cities, stitching together multi-day routes that venture through different neighborhoods in terrain. For Liz, urban hiking offers a unique opportunity to take advantage of the city streets and parks right outside her door.
Liz Thomas:
The first time I urban hiked, it was this existential question of what is hiking? What does it mean to be a hiker? What does it mean to be a thru-hiker?
And I think my takeaway of it is that a hike is something that's physically and mentally challenging that involves some level of walking. So that's what makes an urban hike different than walking your dog the same route that you do every single day. It's pushing yourself to do something very new.
Shelby Stanger:
Liz Thomas is one of the most accomplished hikers in the U.S. She's completed the Triple Crown, which means she's hiked Appalachian Trail, the Pacific Crest Trail, and the Continental Divide Trail. She even set a self-supported, fastest known time on the Appalachian Trail in 2011. Liz has a ton of experience in remote parts of the wilderness, but for the past 10 years, she's been creating and hiking long-distance routes in 15 cities around the U.S.
I'm Shelby Stanger, and this is Wild Ideas Worth Living. An REI Co-op Studios production presented by Capital One and the REI Co-op MasterCard.
Liz Thomas, welcome to Wild Ideas Worth Living. We're excited to chat with you today.
Liz Thomas:
Thanks so much for having me on Shelby.
Shelby Stanger:
So Liz, how did you first get into hiking and what about it lured you in?
Liz Thomas:
I didn't grow up in a really outdoorsy family, but I had a first grade teacher who was really interested in getting kids outdoors. And I just loved being in this little nature reserve by my house where she took us. And I begged my parents who were not hikers or outdoorsy people at all being like, "Hey, can we go hiking?"
And they're like, "Oh, okay. It's free. I guess." And I kept that love alive. My parents were not the type of people to take camping or be able to really afford expensive outdoor equipment. But by the time I got to college I was like, "I know this is what I want to do."
Shelby Stanger:
Amazing. So where did you go to college and how did you get deeper into hiking then?
Liz Thomas:
I went to college at Claremont McKenna College, which is very close to where I live now, and I joined the outdoor club. So I learned a lot of my outdoor skills from professors who were in their 60s being like, "Hey, there's a student who wants to go outdoors and learn stuff? Yeah."
Shelby Stanger:
Through the outdoors club, Liz fell in love with the sense of adventure she felt on the trail. She was good at going with the flow and looking at the bright side.After graduating from college, Liz decided to take on some multi-month thru-hikes starting with the Appalachian Trail or the AT in 2008. The next year she hiked the Pacific Crest Trail and the year after that she completed the Continental Divide Trail.
Okay. Do you remember the first trail, the Appalachian Trail, pretty well?
Liz Thomas:
Oh yeah.
Shelby Stanger:
Is there any highlights or extreme situations that you remember that stand out?
Liz Thomas:
Yeah, so when I was in the Smoky Mountain National Park, so I hammocked on the AT Actually both times I've hiked the AT I've hammocked.
Shelby Stanger:
Tell me what that means real quick.
Liz Thomas:
It's like a hammock in your backyard. You string yourself up between two trees and sleep in a hammock with a tarp over the top to keep the rain out. Well, okay. Theoretically, the tarp keeps the rain out.
My most memorable day on the AT is when I woke up in the middle of night at 2:00 AM being like, "Why am I so cold?" Take out my headlamp and realize my hammock has turned into this swinging bathtub and all this water is soaking in with me in the hammock. And I just remember thinking, "If I have one more night like this, I'm quitting."
And then when I woke up in the morning, it stopped raining, and the sky was this really vibrant blue. And the flowers on the trees had all popped out and the grass was so green. And being in the Smokies, I just felt this power, this energy off the trail itself.
Like everyone who had walked the AT Before me and everyone who would walk it after me was going on the same path and the people who had lived there before, it was just this magical connection to the land. And that's what kept me going.
Shelby Stanger:
I love that. And so how soon after did you decide to do the next trail?
Liz Thomas:
So when I finished the AT, I felt really, really gross. My knees hurt. A month afterwards, I was still having trouble going up the stairs to my apartment. And I ended up getting tests for Lyme disease and I had Lyme disease. So I had to heal from that and luckily, everything worked out with the meds. But it was probably a few months before I'm like, "All right, how do I make this PCT thing happen?"
Shelby Stanger:
Okay. And then how was the PCT?
Liz Thomas:
PCT was awesome and hard in its own way. Having hiked so much in Southern California, I was like, "I got this." And then this year when PCT hikers go through, there's a lot more snow than when I had spent time in this year, which is a little bit more walkable. But it was great. I bet so many cool people. Yeah, it's a great trail.
Shelby Stanger:
Amazing. So during this time, did you have other jobs?
Liz Thomas:
Yeah, I was in grad school for the first part. And the way that I was able to fund Hiking the PCT was that I got a grant to do research on the PCT.
Shelby Stanger:
Genius.
Liz Thomas:
It was pretty genius.
Shelby Stanger:
What sort of research were you doing?
Liz Thomas:
I was looking at the role of thru-hikers on gateway communities along the trail because I realized how important the towns are to the hiker experience. And potentially, how hikers could benefit a lot of rural communities, and also how that relationship can go sour if hikers are not behaving themselves.
Shelby Stanger:
I'm so fascinated that you studied something, and then got a grant for it. And actually made it your life's work, and you figured out a way to get paid to be an adventurer.
Liz Thomas:
Thank you. I think really knowing that it was something that I loved and wanted to make happen, I felt like I was throwing against the wall and being like, "Is anyone going to fund this?" And it ended up working out.
Shelby Stanger:
By the time Liz was 25, she'd completed the Triple Crown. In between hikes, she was also working on a master's degree in environmental science. She figured that after she finished these thru-hikes, she'd have to grow up and get an office job, but the trails kept calling her back. She decided to return to the Appalachian Trail and go after a fastest known time or FKT.
Liz Thomas:
I was like, "Wait. What if I were just to hike one more trail? I've learned so much on the CDT. I bet if I went to hike the AT, I could do it as fast as I want. And maybe it would be an FKT, I don't know, but at least I could build it into the hike that I dream of."
Shelby Stanger:
Then you did it. In 2011, you broke the record for the fastest known time of the Appalachian Trail at the time. Is that correct?
Liz Thomas:
Yeah, fastest woman, self-supported.
Shelby Stanger:
Amazing. And what was that like? How did that make you feel?
Liz Thomas:
I feel like I'd spent so much of my life being kind of mid. People were like, "Eh, she's okay, whatever." And it was the first time where I'm like, "Oh, maybe I'm actually good at something."
Shelby Stanger:
What did you just say? Did you say, "I've spent so much of my life feeling mid?" Is that the word you used?
Liz Thomas:
Yeah.
Shelby Stanger:
I don't even think I've heard that word.
Liz Thomas:
I live near a college campus, so it is a Gen Z word.
Shelby Stanger:
Can you say that again? I felt so much of my life feeling mid. I love that.
Liz Thomas:
Just not feeling like a super athlete. When I was in elementary school, I was the slowest kid to run the mile in my class. And as an outdoor athlete, I feel people don't really think of it as being a serious athlete because you're not training in the same ways. You don't have a team.
So to be able to go out there and be like, "Oh, okay, this is an FKT, is what this means," was a huge mental shift for me.
Shelby Stanger:
Yeah, I bet. I also love this story because my niece tells me she's slow and she's the slowest in her elementary middle school. And I was like, "I don't think you're going to be slow forever."
That is really heartwarming and I appreciate you sharing that you were the slowest kid in elementary school.
So how did you prepare differently for your FKT versus some of your other hikes? What was your strategy?
Liz Thomas:
Yeah, my strategy was getting up a lot earlier and hiking a lot later. And I think just being prepared to be on the move more. So in some ways, as far as staying warm, there's a little bit less of a margin because there's no hanging out in camp, like needing a big down puffy jacket.
Also, I hammocked on that trail. But I went into it knowing I'm going to have to rely on my hammock a lot more because I'm just going to hike until I physically can't, every day. And find a tree, string it up and fall asleep.
Shelby Stanger:
What if there wasn't a tree?
Liz Thomas:
Then I keep hiking
Shelby Stanger:
Until there's a tree.
So can you tell me what a typical day was like? I know this was a long time ago, but take me from waking up to actually hitting your head down in the hammock.
Liz Thomas:
Yeah. I would wake up in the dark and just get hiking, oftentimes solo. It was a lot of times solo. I think because I got ahead of the pack, the AT often is seen as a really social trail and I didn't see that many people at all.
But in some ways, it was so exhilarating to have the AT sort of to myself and to be going at the speed and seeing all of these things that I'd seen my first thru-hike. I was so excited to go around the next turn because I had been there before and I was like, "Whoa, I'm back here. I never thought I'd be back here. It's so beautiful. I'm so excited to be here." I was so tired, I was happy, delirious.
Shelby Stanger:
After 80 days, 13 hours and 11 minutes, Liz broke the Appalachian Trail self-supported FKT. That means she did the entire trail on her own. No van followed her along for a comfy spot to sleep, and no friends cooked her dinner along the way. Once she finished the FKT, Liz settled down a bit, at least by her standards. She worked for various trail organizations and outdoor nonprofits, but she still hiked whenever she could. Then in 2013, Liz decided to take on a completely different type of thru-hiking.
Liz Thomas is an incredibly accomplished hiker and outdoor writer. In her early years as an adventurer, Liz completed the Triple Crown. And in 2011, she set a fastest known time on the Appalachian Trail. Two years after her FKT, Liz set out on her very first urban hike. She liked the idea of exploring dense urban sprawl, commercial corridors, park trails, and residential neighborhoods. I want to shift gears a little bit because you're known for urban hiking. What does that look like actually? Where have you done some great urban hikes?
Liz Thomas:
I've urban hiked in, I believe 15 cities. My first one was Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle. I lived in Denver for a while, so I did quite a few in Denver. Tucson, Grand Rapids, New York City.
Shelby Stanger:
What inspired you to start urban hiking?
Liz Thomas:
I got a cold email on my website from this group of urban hikers in LA who were like, "Hey, we do urban day hiking. We have a group that's really big activists around this. Would you like to come do an urban thru-hike connecting a lot of these day hiking routes?"
So based on this total stranger that emailed me, I was living in Denver at the time, I went out to LA. Stayed at these total strangers houses and just trusted the universe being like, "Sure, I'll check this out." And it was awesome.
Shelby Stanger:
So what'd you guys do? Where'd you start? Where'd you go? Where'd you sleep? Where'd you eat?
Liz Thomas:
So this route is called the Inman 300. It was invented by Bob Inman, who's a big enthusiast of urban hiking in LA. And also, he's really into these public stairways that are in the hills of LA. And the idea is to connect all of these 300 public stairways in one route that is about the same length and the same elevation gain as the John Muir Trail in [inaudible 00:13:42].
Shelby Stanger:
How amazing. So what did this whole hike look like? Take me through the whole thing.
Liz Thomas:
So it looked like a lot of going up, really, really steep stairways. LA, very notoriously, there are canyons where there's no cell reception. I had a really bad phone at the time, so I printed everything as paper maps and was navigating.
It feels a lot trying to navigate slot canyons in Utah, because you're counting how many canyons you have, trying to keep track of where the streets are. The public stairways are often hidden behind people's trash cans or bushes. So you're peeking behind people's houses trying to see whether it'll go or not. It's a wild adventure.
Shelby Stanger:
And then where are you eating and where are you sleeping on this one?
Liz Thomas:
Yeah, I was able to sleep at the houses of people who are part of the urban hiking community in LA who very kindly put me up.
And then eating, the foods tend to be at the lower thoroughfares. So if you're up in the hills doing a bunch of stairways, it could be hours between when you see the next restaurant.
I also carried a lot of food with me. I carried almost like a thru-hiking amount of food with me, which was not, that was a rookie move. That was my first urban thru-hike. There's food everywhere and I didn't need to be bringing five days worth of backpacking food with me.
Shelby Stanger:
What about that hike in New York? What was that one like?
Liz Thomas:
Yeah, so in New York City, that one was one of my most organized ones. Everyone's like, "When are you going to do New York?" And I'm like, "I'm a New York-a-phobe. It's a really big city. I'm afraid of New Yorkers." Every time I've gone to New York, it's been terrifying.
I think as an urban hiker, I got into it because I'd done all of these wilderness treks, but cities still terrified me. And New York was the number one place that terrified me in terms of all of the people, all the mess.
So for the New York City one, I hiked 225 miles through all five boroughs. And that was done in partnership with the Trust for Public Land specifically, because the more urban hikes that I did, the more I learned how important green space is within cities. And the Trust for Public Land has been working on this project in all five boroughs to build green spaces, parks, within communities.
Shelby Stanger:
So where do you sleep?
Liz Thomas:
That one? Most of my urban hikes require a lot of planning on where do I sleep because I'm hiking solo. I don't know a lot of the neighborhoods and I'm not going to just go sleep behind a trashcan. So I'll figure out where hostels are. If I have friends in a city, I will plan my trip around where they live. Sometimes I'll use Airbnbs as well.
Shelby Stanger:
So you're not setting up a tent in the middle of Central Park?
Liz Thomas:
No, I have done that on ... Not in the middle of Central Park. I have done it on some urban hikes, but it's in cities that I know that it's pretty much okay.
Shelby Stanger:
I'm guessing there's a certain appeal to urban hiking because you get to sleep in a real bed and you get to use a real toilet.
Liz Thomas:
I could see that being an allure for a lot of people. For me, because I feel really comfortable in wilderness where I'm digging my own cat holes and sleeping on the ground, I think the allure is really challenging myself in a different ecosystem. In an urban ecosystem.
And I think also the allure is really getting to understand cities more. I think when you're on foot, you can see how cities are all connected.
So a lot of times, especially in these days, there's the rich areas or the poor areas, and the safe areas and the not safe areas. And when you're on foot, you realize they're all just this continuum of a city. They're all connected and it really makes me feel as if communities are connected even though we might think of people who live on that side of town as being so different than us.
Shelby Stanger:
So how do you consider safety, especially when you're alone in the city?
Liz Thomas:
Yeah, I think one of the things that I try to keep in mind is, for many people, the neighborhoods that are considered unsafe, this is where they live. And just being really present and mindful of what's around me.
And I usually try not to hike at night solo. If I think I'm going to be hiking at night, I'll try to find some other people who will hike with me. But I think a lot of times safety is overemphasized. Just like walking in the woods, a lot of times if you're walking with purpose, it's fine.
Shelby Stanger:
Tell me more about what you learned about urban hiking versus wilderness hiking. What you liked about it. What was different?
Liz Thomas:
Yeah. I think the thing that surprised me the most about urban hiking is the similarities with thru-hiking in the wilderness, in the woods. Just, what it's like to push your body all day. What it's like to have to navigate and keep your mind sharp. And just be open to opportunities that come up along the trail.
Shelby Stanger:
While the sounds and smells of a city are completely different from being out in the woods, a lot of things we all love about hiking are still present.
You get to push yourself physically, awaken your sense of adventure, and use the rhythmic movement as a time for reflection.
There's some additional pros of hiking in a city that give it a leg up on the wilderness. Obviously, you have your creature comforts, warm bed, running water, real toilets, even air conditioning in some cases, but you also carry a lot less stuff on your back.
Liz Thomas:
I think the best way to think about an urban thru-hike is like an end-to-end trip where every night I'll be sleeping in a bed. I'll have access to a shower. I'll have access to food. And so my pack is pretty minimal. It's what I would use for day hiking each day. And I'll bring an extra pair of clothes. I'll be prepared to do laundry there. So it's pretty minimal.
Shelby Stanger:
So what gear do you take with you that you don't take with you on a wilderness hike? Or what gear do you usually leave behind that you would take on a wilderness hike?
Liz Thomas:
I sometimes will bring more in the toiletries department on an urban hike. I don't backpack with deodorant, but I will bring deodorant on an urban hike.
For example, I've urban hiked sometimes when I'm supposed to be working or need to be checking in on my laptop. I'll bring a really lightweight laptop as well. Yeah, that's one of the things that an urban hike can afford is more chargers, more electronics, more smelling good.
Shelby Stanger:
I like that. And you'll actually work on a trail, which is really cool. You'll do remote working?
Liz Thomas:
Yeah. And each day is its own micro adventure because when I set out from my friend's house or the Airbnb, I don't know what I'm going to see. I don't know if I'm going to get lost. I don't know what the day is going to look like. It's truly an adventure.
Shelby Stanger:
So what exactly are you bringing as far as backpack and clothes?
Liz Thomas:
Yeah, I bring a change of clothes, backpacking clothes. You can be a little bit more stylish when you're on an urban hike than you might be in the back country. Extra socks, I'll bring toiletries so I can take a shower every night.
Shelby Stanger:
And then what do you have for food and water?
Liz Thomas:
I usually bring, I've got one or two liters capacity as far as my water bottles go. And then for food, I usually just have a few energy bars because I know I'm going to run into restaurants.
Shelby Stanger:
I love that. Okay. And you have a map with you or your phone.
Liz Thomas:
Right. I'll bring an extra phone battery. Sometimes I have a map and sunglasses, a hat, sunscreen. Super important.
Shelby Stanger:
How do you prepare for a multi-day urban hike? Let's say, you're going to go for a week or so.
Liz Thomas:
Yeah, I think one of the most important things is having really good shoes. And the shoes that you need for urban hiking are different than what you would use for backpacking.
A cushioned sole really helps. Being on pavement for that long is, any roadrunner can tell you, it hurts compared to being on trail. So I learned that the hard way on my first urban hike. And since then I have these ultra marathon road running, designed for bad water-
Shelby Stanger:
Do you have HOKAs?
Liz Thomas:
... They're the Altra Paradigm, so they're-
Shelby Stanger:
The Altras, okay.
Liz Thomas:
... Yeah, they're super, super cushioned. But yeah, HOKAs are also really popular among urban hikers.
Shelby Stanger:
What are there other things that you need to do to prepare if you're going for multi-days? So we've got shoes.
Liz Thomas:
When I'm doing my planning, not only do I plan where I'm going to stay each night, but I also like to plan things like where can I eat? Where are the bathrooms? Where might there be drinking fountains? Where might there be a picnic table that I can sit at and take a break for a while? I think those are all really important parts of urban hiking.
Shelby Stanger:
Where have you had your most magical meal?
Liz Thomas:
Oh. So when I was hiking in Seattle, I was with this really rad woman, Vivian, who was an ultra runner who would only run it in the city to train. She would run from bakery to bakery. So she had all the hookups being like, "This is the best croissant in this neighborhood. Oh, when you get to that neighborhood, you need to go here." So that was awesome.
Shelby Stanger:
So I'm making my partner do a ... He and I are going to do a coffee thru-hike. And we're going to stop at every single coffee shop from here all the way up to the tip of the coast, as many pastries. I think there should be more coffee hikes. I love this.
Liz Thomas:
I consider doing ... So I've done urban thru-hikes where I go from brewery to brewery. And I considered doing-
Shelby Stanger:
I would just be too drunk. That's why I can't do that.
Liz Thomas:
... There was a big learning curve with that. I had a friend who was our designated hiker. And I considered after that doing a coffee hike and then I was like, I would get too caffeinated.
Shelby Stanger:
Well, I was like, coffee, tea, pastry, whatever. You stop and you get a snack at every little place.
Liz Thomas:
I would love to join you for that.
Shelby Stanger:
The beauty of urban hiking is that you can plan a hike around whatever interests you. Art galleries. Yep. Plant nurseries. You bet. You want to do a hike around the best cookies in town? Abso-frickin-lutely. Personally, I'd plan to stop at surf shops and coffee shops. All you have to do is put your stops in on your favorite maps app and boom, your route is ready.
Liz told me that she likes to do a little extra research and use satellite view. You never know where you might find a cool bike trail or an unpaved road.
I'm curious how urban hiking changed your relationship with cities, especially New York.
Liz Thomas:
Yeah, I think being on foot in a city, it brought all of those big skyscrapers and the busyness down to three miles per hour that I walk. It brought it down to a human level. And it made me think of the city not as a scary place, but as a place where I can build real human connections with people that I meet along the way. And just be open to, it slows everything down.
I think every time I'd been to New York, I'd been in a taxi or on a train, all these people. And I realized, New York actually isn't that busy or overwhelming on foot. Even these places that are these lots of people or whatever, they're walking the same speed I am. They're really busy, but I'm also trying to get to my next location. It made a lot of the things that were really intimidating, feel very human.
Shelby Stanger:
I just think your take on hiking is really interesting. You're doing these long hikes in big cities, obviously it's not just about getting out in nature for you. What makes you so excited about urban hiking?
Liz Thomas:
I think one of the things about urban hiking is that I really want to get people who are really into being outdoors in the wilderness, people who have no problem driving seven hours to get to a peak, to be like, "Wait. Why are the places that I live right next to not walkable, not safe?" Not only for me to go out on an adventure, but also for people who don't have cars, can't drive cars. People who get around in wheelchairs.
There's a whole community of people that relies on infrastructure. And the way that we as outdoor adventurers think about adventure and being active as a thing you do over there. Instead of being, adventure can be right here and being active can be right here.
I think another aspect too about urban hiking is that there's a lot of people who don't go out and adventure. They probably aren't listeners to this podcast, but who don't feel comfortable in the outdoors. And I just want to offer urban hiking as a way to have a lot of those healing aspects of movement, of being in nature without some of the constraints that are involved with getting out into wilderness areas.
Shelby Stanger:
To follow Liz and learn more about her writing and adventures, you can find her on Instagram @lizthomashking. That's L-I-Z T-H-O-M-A-S hiking.
Liz also started a website called Treeline Review in 2018 where she reviews gear and offers expert advice for getting outside. I highly recommend checking it out. It's a great resource. We'll link to it in our show notes.
If you want to learn more about the LA stairs that Liz mentioned, there's an episode of Hello Nature, one of REI's other podcasts, all about them. We'll link to that in our show notes too.
Wild Ideas Worth Living is part of the REI podcast network. It's hosted by me, Shelby Stanger, produced by Annie Fassler, Sylvia Thomas, and Sam Peers Nitzberg of Puddle Creative. Our senior producers are Jenny Barber and Hanna Boyd. Our executive producers are Paolo Mottola and Joe Crosby.
As always, we love it when you follow the show, take time to rate it, and write a review wherever you listen.
And remember, some of the best adventures happen when you follow your wildest ideas.