Rue Mapp spent her youth swimming in creeks and playing on her family’s ranch in California. As she got older, Rue explored new ways to get outside and enjoy nature, but she didn’t see many other Black people in the outdoor spaces she loved. As a response, Rue started Outdoor Afro, a national not-for-profit that celebrates and inspires Black connections and leadership in nature.
Rue Mapp spent her youth swimming in creeks and playing on her family’s ranch in California. As she got older, Rue explored new ways to get outside and enjoy nature, but she didn’t see many other Black people in the outdoor spaces she loved. In 2009, she started a social enterprise called Outdoor Afro. In 2015, Outdoor Afro became a national not-for-profit that celebrates and inspires Black connections and leadership in nature. Now, Outdoor Afro, Inc. is releasing a clothing line in collaboration with REI Co-op that honors the history of Black people in the outdoors and celebrates Black joy.
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Rue Mapp:
I got pretty clear quickly that there were a lot of people walking around here, like me, who felt they were the only ones, that they were some kind of curiosity, or they were some kind of exception to the rule. But I realized that when you bring all the people who feel like they're the only ones together, we're actually quite numerous.
Rue Mapp:
And so getting a chance to hear back from people and learn from other people about their stories became a really important way for me to build on the narrative of Outdoor Afro and to really remind everyone that Black people have always been here in these spaces. Outdoor Afro did not invent Black people getting outside.
Shelby Stanger:
For Rue Mapp, getting outside has always been an essential part of life. She spent her youth swimming in creeks and playing on her family's ranch in California. As she got older, Rue explored new ways to get outside and enjoy nature. She started a family and took her kids hiking and camping, but she didn't see many other Black people in the outdoor spaces she loved. So in 2009, Rue started a social enterprise called Outdoor Afro. Six years later in 2015, Outdoor Afro became a national not-for-profit organization that celebrates and inspires Black connections and leadership in nature. I'm Shelby Stanger, and this is Wild Ideas Worth Living, an REI Co-op Studios production.
Shelby Stanger:
Rue has been invited to the White House, she's gone hiking with Oprah and she has a book coming out later in 2022. What started as a project to build community has now expanded to include a for-profit business. Rue never imagined this level of success when she began the Outdoor Afro blog at her kitchen table, more than a decade ago. When did you get the wild idea to start Outdoor Afro and how did it happen?
Rue Mapp:
What occurred to me around the time of the founding of the Outdoor Afro blog and vision was a conversation that I had with a mentor who asked me a question, "If time and money were not an issue for you, what would you be doing? "And I said, "I'd probably start a website to reconnect Black people to the outdoors."
Rue Mapp:
And we both took a moment to kind of absorb what I had just said. And sometimes the thing that you're supposed to do, the thing you're on the planet to do is hiding out in plain sight. But as I got more and more into outdoor adventure outside of the city, I found there were fewer and fewer people who looked like me, much less depicted who looked like me in the representation.
Rue Mapp:
So here I was continuing to pursue outdoor activities with my family, persisting going to various organizations, finding connections online, finding groups of people who shared my interests, and I was never satisfied because it was always something missing, either they didn't give me enough information about what I was going to encounter.
Rue Mapp:
I didn't have the proper gear and equipment. I didn't feel like I was welcomed. I felt more of a curiosity sometimes and just a regular participant. I was often the only Black person in those experiences. And I still persisted. I just felt like I'm having all this great life benefit, all this personal development that I have only been able to achieve through my connections to nature. I want more people to have those connections.
Shelby Stanger:
What was the first step to starting?
Rue Mapp:
Yeah. Once I had that conversation, I literally sat down and threw together a conversation using a blog template and just started telling the story. And I remember I had, How did a Oakland girl like me come to love the outdoors? That was my first post. And it was in three parts because I had a whole lot to say about it.
Rue Mapp:
And I just wanted to announce to the world who I was and what made me me. And what happened just very quickly after that initial offering of who I was, were people reflecting back to me that they had something about that story that they could connect with or that I was literally telling their story.
Rue Mapp:
And so I think alongside the momentum that was gaining through social media in general and me being slightly ahead of the curve on that, I was able to generate audience as well as visibility of the work. Because the algorithms were nice and flat, there was no other Outdoor Afro that existed.
Rue Mapp:
There was no other real affinity group that I could turn to and say, "Yeah, I want to be just like them." So we were really able to stand out early. And by connecting with folks professionally around the blog early, like in 2010, I got invited to the White House. And I, I mean, I got this email and I was thinking it was spam. I was like-
Shelby Stanger:
What did it say?
Rue Mapp:
It said, "The White House cordially invites you." And in my mind, I'm finishing the sentence of give money, weigh in on healthcare. And then I opened the email. I still have that email too.
Rue Mapp:
It was, "President Obama is inviting you to come and be a part of this historic signing of a memorandum," to really, I mean, essentially double down that the outdoors belong to everybody. And it was a multi-agency event and invitation and it included a lot of people from the outdoor industry.
Rue Mapp:
And so I was reading it and I was like, "Oh my gosh." I was like, "These are my people. This is where I really want to be." And I was broke. I had no money. I just had a blog and I had a part-time job at our local Audubon. And I nearly hitchhiked my way to DC and slept on people's couches.
Rue Mapp:
And I was there front row and center when he signed that memorandum. And there was so much excitement in the room and the reception and networking is where I met Sally Jewell, who was then the REI CEO. And so many other leaders who to this day are still my friends, who have also been a part of the shaping of Outdoor Afro from an idea into a profession.
Shelby Stanger:
Rue has built Outdoor Afro into a remarkable organization. They now have over 60,000 participants nationwide and there are more than a hundred Outdoor Afro leaders in 32 states. Every year, these leaders gather to learn about risk management, trip planning, communications, and policy.
Shelby Stanger:
They return home to their communities to host events like kayaking, walking in local parks, standup paddle boarding and more. I first interviewed Rue back in 2018 and she told me something that really stuck with me. She said, "Shelby, change only happens at the speed of relationships." It sounds like that's how you built Outdoor Afro, the relationships. Talk to me about that.
Rue Mapp:
There's no shortcut. You've got to really take the time to get to know people, get to know what they value. And it's through that understanding is when you will truly be a relevant figure in the conversation.
Rue Mapp:
Just because my organization is a Black focus organization and I too am Black, it didn't mean that I had a hall pass. I still had to earn it in my own community. And so it's been important for me to get to know my community, understand those barriers and opportunities and then figure out how Outdoor Afro gets to be in the mix of solving for them.
Shelby Stanger:
Can we talk about those a little bit deeper? What are those barriers? What are those opportunities? What's been successful?
Rue Mapp:
So for us real, from a real tactical perspective, I'd say I waited until I had a thousand followers. And I was like, "Okay, people, here's my SurveyMonkey. And I want to know if you want to get outside, why are you not getting outside?"
Rue Mapp:
And the top reasons why people weren't getting outside who wanted to were gear and equipment, from the intimidation factor of going into a outdoor specialty retailer to just not knowing even what to buy when you're there, not knowing where to go or what to do, fears and perceptions.
Rue Mapp:
So fears of what might bite you, fears of the unknown, fears of other people like, "If I go to this place, am I going to run into people who may not want me there?" And then the number one reason was time.
Rue Mapp:
And that really got my attention, because this perception that you have to have an entire weekend, that you've got to have a lot of free time was really intriguing to me. Where I live the Bay Area and many cities, we've got places where we can go and access nature within 10 minutes of our home.
Rue Mapp:
So if we can reshape the narrative that you don't have to have a lot of vacation time or leisure time to be able to access the outdoors in a high quality way, then we might be on to something. And it was from that information that I formed the Outdoor Afro leadership team.
Rue Mapp:
That was another turn to social media moment and said, "Who wants to be an Outdoor Afro leader?" And we put together a curriculum for the 12 people who said, yes, they'd be Outdoor Afro leaders. That involved risk management, trip planning and logistics, but also communications, policy and really showcasing what hospitality could look like. And that really was what shaped our whole program that we still do to this day.
Shelby Stanger:
So those bare bones barriers, is it still the same barriers or have they evolved a little bit?
Rue Mapp:
I think that some have elongated, some are the same. We have a lot more input around social media and how things are represented in ways that we didn't before. So I think that where to go, what to do, it feels a lot more approachable. I think belonging and welcoming has kind of taken on different shapes depending on what the national conversation is.
Rue Mapp:
But I feel like the core challenges are still the same. And I think what's been so important to Outdoor Afro and what has helped us has been our discipline to stay really focused on what we're good at. We are good at celebrating and inspiring Black leadership and connections to nature.
Rue Mapp:
Because what I found was that there was this problem statement where you'd get these crazy statistics that would say, "Yeah, and 0.001% of visitors to Yosemite are Black." And people will go, "Oh my God, that's a problem." And I'd be, "Are you kidding me?" Let's talk about it.
Rue Mapp:
Yosemite is about four hours from where Black people live. If you are a busy working family, you probably have full time job, you might have kids or people you're responsible for. And the time that you have for leisure is limited, right? On the weekends, you might have soccer games and shopping and Sundays might be your day of rest or worship.
Rue Mapp:
And so when you look at what people have to work with time wise, it's maybe not a lot. And if they do spend time doing things, they want to go to places where they know what's up, they know what they're going to get. And so to ask a family, a busy working family to get in their car, to go to a place they've never been to, they don't know who's there, they don't know what the food is like, that's a lot of barriers to entry.
Rue Mapp:
So the closer those nature opportunities were to home, the more likely people were to enjoy them and probably were already pursuing them. And so Outdoor Afro really sought to capture those close to home opportunities and curate ways that people could go out with us perhaps one time, but then go back on their own over and over again. That to me, that's success.
Shelby Stanger:
You said something that really hit me in a unique way. I've talked to a lot of people on the outdoor industry, and I've never heard someone talk about this notion of hospitality and the outdoors. Could you expand what that means?
Rue Mapp:
Yeah. I mean, my family migrated from the South to California and brought with them their love for the outdoors. My dad was quite the outdoorsman. He created this ranch about a hundred miles North of where we lived in Oakland. That was really our laboratory for not only engaging with the outdoors, but also being this site of hospitality and just seeing how people came for community and they also came for peace.
Rue Mapp:
And so I had this front row seat to all of these things. People would literally show up at our ranch without warning, without invitation, without a nickel or a bag of chips, but they were all equally welcomed. And my dad, when we would have our kind of closing time sending people off back home, he would say, "You have a standing invitation."
Rue Mapp:
And that meant that as you were welcome this time, know that you're welcome always. To this day, people who travel around the world, who've experienced my dad's hospitality when they were a child, still say that that hospitality was unparalleled. They've never had the feeling of being welcomed as who you are and whatever you brought.
Rue Mapp:
I swear Shelby, it would be like, there was always a warm plate of food. There's was always... I was thinking back the other day and I was like, there just never seemed to be a moment we were out of things. It was always like, there's another rib, there's another cup of punch. I mean, and we would all be so satisfied.
Rue Mapp:
And I think that that's a part of hospitality. It's not just the welcoming, but do people feel satisfied out of those experiences? Is their cup filled? Do they come away sitting taller, feeling the flush of love and belonging?
Rue Mapp:
When people come away from an Outdoor Afro experience, I often hear that it's like a family reunion. And these are people who never met each other who go on these experiences, but they come away with a feeling of being familiar with each other in a way that we can attribute to what it's like.
Rue Mapp:
And I'm sure you experience this. It's an anthropological term called deep hanging out. When you're out in nature with people and it's just you and them, it's almost like this accelerator for intimacy and connection.
Rue Mapp:
I have lifelong friends who I only saw once a summer, but we'd spend a whole week of just talking and being together under trees and swimming and swimming holes. And then when you add the attitude of openness and welcoming, it really creates something special for people. Everybody wants to feel like they belong. And I've really been consistent about just beating the drum of belonging.
Shelby Stanger:
Outdoor Afro's sense of hospitality hasn't wavered since Rue launched the organization. Her values and networking skills have allowed the not-for-profit to grow immensely. Outdoor Afro coordinates activities with networks in more than 60 cities, from teaching children to swim, to organizing Juneteenth commemorations nationwide, they're having a profound impact on Black communities.
Shelby Stanger:
When we come back, Rue talks about the latest way she's making the outdoors more inclusive, a clothing collaboration with REI as a part of the new Outdoor Afro, Inc. Since launching Outdoor Afro in 2009, Rue has partnered with leaders and educators in the outdoor industry to make an impact. She began working with REI in 2010 and has been collaborating with them ever since.
Rue Mapp:
After meeting Sally Jewell at the America's Great Outdoors initiative with President Obama, I came back home and started working as a program officer and connected in with Myrian Solis Coronel. And her job was multicultural marketing at REI. And I'll never forget the conversation I had with her. I said, "Hey, I got this idea." And I'm literally at my job in the parking lot on the phone.
Rue Mapp:
I was like, "I got this idea of doing an Outdoor Afro leadership team. And we're going to train people across all these disciplines of that I've learned about. And I'd love to get your help somehow." And she's like, "What do you need?" And I was like, "Well, I just need enough money to cover the meetups the first year." And she told me later that she never forgot the amount that I asked her for. You want to guess?
Shelby Stanger:
Because it wasn't very high, was it?
Rue Mapp:
It was $144.
Shelby Stanger:
Rue, should have put a couple zeros on that.
Shelby Stanger:
The relationship blossomed from there, REI learned more about diversity and inclusion from Outdoor Afro and Outdoor Afro invited REI to educate their leaders about risk management. After years of working closely with the Co-op team, including current CEO, Eric Artz, Rue came to REI with an idea in 2020. She wanted to launch a clothing line that celebrated Black joy and the outdoors.
Shelby Stanger:
So now there's this beautiful collaboration, which is unlike anything I've really seen before. Tell me about this, how this idea came, what's in the line?
Rue Mapp:
Yeah. Well, this has really been, not only a dream come true, but a coming together of so many things that I care about and that I feel really good about. So my first business before I did Outdoor Afro, before I launched into corporate America was a clothing line. I actually put together a small run of clothing that I sewed myself, sold it to boutiques.
Rue Mapp:
And I actually made my first outdoor gear in the early nineties when snowboarding was really starting to take root. And I made snowboarding pants for my guy at the time and for his buddies. And then I started a family and then we know the rest of that story where so much of my design was just really repurposed into designing an organization.
Rue Mapp:
So here we are today. Just so you know, I'm an entrepreneur through and through. It was not my wildest dream to be a not-for-profit executive, but in 2015 it was the most expedient thing to do. But I had this desire of the heart to do more.
Rue Mapp:
And as we learned about gear and equipment being a real barrier for people and my lived experience through gear and equipment, I was like, we have to find a way to solve this problem. And I knew I was going to already do something bigger without Outdoor Afro regardless.
Rue Mapp:
And I wanted to do it with REI. And so we had a meeting the winter of 2020, and we just had this incredible conversation where I was like, "Look, I'm going to do something bigger. The trains already left the station. I want to do it with you." And they thought about it. And they came back and said, "Yeah. We're going to be on for the ride with you." But this idea was really about solving one of those problems.
Shelby Stanger:
So what are we going to see on the shelves?
Rue Mapp:
Yeah. We're going to see clothing that exude the value and ethos of Black joy. And not just the feeling of Black joy, but a practical application through gear and clothing specifically that fits more bodies. I'd had so much trouble finding a pair of hiking pants that fit my body. And not just as a woman, but someone who wanted to pursue outdoor experiences without having to be self-conscious.
Rue Mapp:
And for so long, I felt like I had to give something up of who I am, I had to leave something at the door. You can't be fashionable, but doesn't require that you change in order to leave that Trailhead and go meet a friend for coffee or a pint. And so what I was able to do with the support of my creative director, who is my rockstar, my friend, my rock, Tae Kim.
Rue Mapp:
He and I had actually met earlier in 2020. And I told him that I want clothes that really reflect the culture of not only the Black community, but really remind us of other times and places and spaces in our lives that were fun and energizing that are also going to be right for the outdoors. And so this line has brought back the parachute pant.
Rue Mapp:
We've brought back the members only jacket, we've brought back the London fog designs. But importantly, we've also woven in some storytelling that's also very unique to Outdoor Afro. It's part of our signature stamp in our events, is really lifting up the history of Black people in nature.
Rue Mapp:
And so one of the prints that I'm actually wearing right now. You can't, folks won't be able to see it, but it's a T-shirt print that is a tribute to all the places of importance that illustrate the important narrative that Outdoor Afro has always been here for, and that is Black people always have.
Rue Mapp:
We always persisted in outdoor recreation, even when there were signs that said, you couldn't swim in this public pool, that you can't go to this beach, this is a whites only recreation area. That we still found our places in nature.
Rue Mapp:
And so this T-shirt is one of the many things that I'm proud of that tell that story right out the gate. And back to the functionality for a second. I mean, I don't know who invented, and I hope I don't get in trouble for this, but I don't know who invented.
Shelby Stanger:
I know what you're going to say.
Rue Mapp:
The zip off pants.
Shelby Stanger:
Go ahead.
Rue Mapp:
The zip off pants. Let's talk about them.
Shelby Stanger:
They're hideous, I get it. Totally.
Rue Mapp:
Right. So I really wanted to have a real fashionable and practical solution for that. And also have pants that wouldn't slip down because you're trying to accommodate your hips, but for the waist, not so much help there. And so I really appreciate the thoughtfulness and the construction.
Rue Mapp:
And I've had a chance to field test almost everything at this point, and I love how things stay put, they hang the right way, I've got range of motion, I got range of cuteness. And that's the experience I want everybody to have in their outdoor experiences and not have to only resort to the uniform of the outdoors.
Rue Mapp:
So there's a T-shirt, there is polo as a little tribute to my preppy eighties, there's a custom polo that is technical. There's a fantastic jacket for both men and women. The leggings are made of the most delicious and comfortable fabric.
Rue Mapp:
I just love how that fabric, how that particular spandex and the ways that the seams are constructed to really be a generous cut for all different types of bodies. And what I mean by all different types of bodies that we're not only talking, this is not a full figure only conversation, this is a size inclusive conversation.
Rue Mapp:
And there was a considerable investment specifically on proportions of Black bodies. So for the very first time to my knowledge in the outdoors, we're actually looking at the fit profile of a Black body. For instance, a Black man's body that may have broader shoulders, smaller waist.
Rue Mapp:
And then we had fit models who were all Black of different sizes so that our outcome is not just about cute clothes, because they are cute, they're real cute, but they're going to fit people. And then there's also a shoe. So you can get your entire life together.
Shelby Stanger:
There's a shoe?
Rue Mapp:
Yeah.
Shelby Stanger:
Tell me about this shoe.
Rue Mapp:
Yeah. I mean, the shoe is a wonderful low profile hiker. You might get away with a little bit of trotting through the woods, but it's an all-purpose hiker and it's got a really complimentary color up to everything else. And so there's a lot of mix and match opportunity across the line. The other thing I'm really excited about is that these color ups are not the color ups that you would expect from REI.
Rue Mapp:
We really push the envelope. And so we've got brighter colors, vibrant colors, colors that say, "I'm here in the outdoors and I'm proud and I'm confident and I'm feeling my joy in the outdoors." And it's been really fun seeing how the fit models put on those clothes and immediately start moving, immediately start dancing and really feeling that range of motion that oftentimes we haven't experienced with outdoor gear and clothing in particular.
Shelby Stanger:
It's no wonder the fit models started dancing, these clothes are cool. In the collection, you'll find fleeces, pants, leggings, T-shirts, outerwear and polos. All of them are in bright colors. They have unique touches like a custom blue camo pattern inspired by Rue's love of water.
Shelby Stanger:
And it's all designed to be flattering, functional and to honor the history of Black people in nature. One of the things, I watched this video on this collection sort of as an intro to the collection and the main slogan from this collaboration is, "We are nature." I love this statement and I'd love to hear from you what we are nature means to you.
Rue Mapp:
One of the things that really came into focus for me during the pandemic was, I don't know if you experienced this, but I know I did, this moment where it felt like everything was shutting down. Can't go visit your friends, can't see your family, can't go to work, can't go to your restaurant, can't shop, can't go to your place of worship, kids can't go to school.
Rue Mapp:
There was all these you can't, you can't and sit down and wait. And I remember looking outside and seeing my rescue pitbull, Lulu laying on the ground, scratching her back as she always does. I saw the blue Scrub Jay jumping from limb to limb as it had done the day before and probably the day before that.
Rue Mapp:
And I recognized that even though all of these things were closed, nature never closes. And that became almost a mantra in my work and also for me personally, to keep my sanity and to remember the bigger thing. And then of course, as the pandemic isolation continued on for much longer than we realized it would, I recognized that we were all trying to find and hack in connection in ways and in times where it was really hard to come by.
Rue Mapp:
And that is when... And I've had many inflection points in my work over the years. I've had moments where I've recognized nature as a teacher, recognized nature as a healer. But in that time, especially as our country felt more divided than ever, I recognized nature as a unifier.
Rue Mapp:
Because I knew that when I'm out in nature, the trees don't know that I'm Black, the flowers are going to bloom no matter how much money is in my account, the birds are going to sing still no matter who I vote for. And so I've really kind of elevated my consciousness around the real way that nature is not separate from who we are.
Rue Mapp:
We're not separate from nature, we are nature. And even if you can't go to your local trail or you can't go to that iconic public land, that there is nature that is at hand inside of you all the time. We just have to shift our consciousness to recognize that. So that became a really important thing for me to meditate on and think about and share in my work. And it's also a metaphor by extension for how we can see and feel connected to one another.
Shelby Stanger:
This September, the Outdoor Afro, Inc x REI Co-op hike collection will be available online and in every single REI store across the country. This clothing line isn't the only project on Rue's plate this year, she also has a book coming out this fall. It's called Nature Swagger. It's full of beautiful pictures and stories of Black joy in nature.
Shelby Stanger:
Rue Mapp, thank you for being such a badass and coming on the show. It's been incredible watching Outdoor Afro grow over the years. And you're just such a joy to talk to. You can follow Rue on her website, ruemapp.com and on Instagram at Rue Mapp. That's R-U-E M-A-P-P. You can also learn more about Outdoor Afro's programming on their website, OutdoorAfro.org and on Instagram at Outdoor Afro.
Shelby Stanger:
Wild Ideas Worth Living is part of the REI podcast network. It's hosted by me, Shelby Stanger. Written and edited by Annie Fassler and Sylvia Thomas of Puddle Creative. Our senior producer is Chelsea Davis and our associate producer is Jenny Barber. Our executive producers are Paolo Mottola and Joe Crosby. As always, we love when you follow the show, when you rate it and when you review it wherever you listen. And remember, some of the best adventures happen when you follow your wildest ideas.